ZenMode
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Me either!
That's fine, but I was never under the impression that it was on day 1....or 2....or 3.....
SCOTUS case: Trans rights for minors
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ZenMode
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It's none of my business, personally. I'm not going to be down at the hospital trying to talk parents and children out of getting gender affirming surgery, But a societal desire to protect children has been around for probably as long as children have existed.
Bullshit.
Mulberry Heel
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One of the key Tennessee Republican legislators who promoted the state law banning transgender healthcare for minors was arrested in Georgia for drunk driving and a hit-and-run. He also pissed in his pants while taking the sobriety test. Yet another family values, Jesus-loving conservative Republican who wants to dictate what other people do in their private lives while apparently not exercising any control over his own. Hypocrites, the lot of them.
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It's amazing that with all of the real issues facing children, you know like hunger, housing, basic living needs, that this would rise to be the number one thing they need to be protected from for many.
Probably the mentality that caused a man to go to Washington with a gun to protect kids from a pedophile ring being ran out of a nonexistent basement in a pizza parlor. I'm sure that guy's children felt protected while dad was in jail for being an idiot.
Not to be misunderstood, I do agree that we need to do all we can for our children, I just think we should start with ensuring they are feed, have health care, educate them, ensure their parents are not working 100 hours a week in order to live and never have time for them. These are all far more important in the protection of children than 0.00001% of the population being able to work with their doctors to address their personal needs.
superrific
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That percentage implies tens of billions of people living in America. I know you're just using it as rhetoric, but I think your point is still valid with a more sensible number like 0.01% (which might also be too low, but at least not several orders of magnitude).
superrific
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This is how right-wing politics has worked for decades, if not centuries. If you want to have some fun while also perhaps regretting some of your political choices earlier in adulthood, go look at the transcripts of presidential debates since the 1960s. You're going to see a lot of discussion of a lot of issues with zero importance to the lives of most Americans. A lot of flag burning and "freedom fries" and gay marriage and communist plots. There's a reason why I have never voted for a Republican ever. For the entirety of my life, the GOP has been the party of stupid distractions and mendacity.
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Ok, maybe there were a few zeros added for hyperbola, but the numbers are really small. The numbers of trans people are small, the numbers who have had the GAS is a subset of that group. I know a few trans people and all of them have not had the surgeries.
superrific
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They are very small, which is why we don't need hyperbole. It's important for the reasonable and intelligent among us to retain our facility with data and statistics, because you know how the both-siders seize on any little mistake.
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You are probably right. I think that some posters bother me with their approach to this topic.
I wonder how many trans people any of the posters here, especially those who are for government intervention, actually know.
My family is probably involved in the LBGTQ community more than the average family and I know very few trans people. And we would not know they were trans had they not told us.
superrific
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Probably more than they think they know.
EhringhausSouth
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I think there is enough evidence to show that the sexual orientation itself is innate and probably cannot be changed. So efforts to actually change sexual orientation I would not support for minors.
No medical school,
BA, History/Political Science (UNC)
MA, in Health Education (Arkansas, Online)
buzzosborne
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Those of you that think the decision should be up to the child, their parents, and their doctors, here's a few questions:
Do you think the parents should be involved in the decision? If so, why? If the child is old enough to make that decision, shouldn't they also have the autonomy to make it all by themselves? If you believe the parents should be involved, would you feel the same way if it were a girl seeking an abortion?
I don't mean these as gotcha questions. I'm just curious.
Do you think the parents should be involved in the decision? If so, why? If the child is old enough to make that decision, shouldn't they also have the autonomy to make it all by themselves? If you believe the parents should be involved, would you feel the same way if it were a girl seeking an abortion?
I don't mean these as gotcha questions. I'm just curious.
The biggest distinction to me is, to use the terms very loosely, the abortion would be episodic and dealing with the gender issues chronic. The time tables are very different as well. The abortion doesn't allow time for much if any consideration. The GSA not only allows it but demands it. While both can be traumatic, one is guaranteed to have a lasting effect and family support is considerably more essential. Add the public and private issues and they are very different events.
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Isn't it normal for a parent to be involved with a child's medical decisions?
Do 14 year olds, go to the doctor on their own for anything? Sprain, tonsils, feeling sick, who takes them to the doctor?
Why should this be treated differently from other medical choices? If one's child tells the parent that they feel sick the parent takes them to the doctor. The family should have the same ability if a child says that they feel different or a young boy tells the parent that they believe or feel like a girl inside, then the parent should be the one taking them for medical evaluation, advice, and possible treatment.
And while you wrote that this isn't a gotcha question, it feels like one. It feels like the preferred answer is that they are not mature enough to make the decision on their own. And that is true, but no one is advocating for a child to make this decision on their own. We are advocating that the government not step in and make the decision for the parent, child, and doctor.
It also feels like many who have questions seem to think this is one size fits all, that there is a Standard Operating Procedure, where when a kid makes this statement, they go through the process and 3 years later they are the opposite gender. It isn't. It's nuanced for each patient and their parents.
But the bottom line remains, it is not the government's choice, it is not our choice, it is the choice of the parents, child, and their medical council.
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In all seriousness, can an under aged girl have an abortion without the parents knowing?
I've not really thought about these topics together, but I guess to be consistent, then I would see this as a medical treatment that should be parent/child/doctor.
As @finesse mentioned they are very different circumstances, time frames, and risk.
I would also hope that a parent in today's society would be able to talk with their child about such needed medical care and not have a meltdown that their child had sex.
Unfortunately, those pregnant teenage girls and children with gender dysphoria who most need parental support are often the children whose parents banish the LGBTQ child and pregnant teenager from the home.
The pregnant minors and the minor children who have gender dysphoria who lack parental support need recourse to finding the medical care they need.
superrific
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I don't even understand why you would be asking this question. One reason they aren't gotcha questions is they can't possibly "get" anyone.
1. Liberals think trans and abortion should both be legal and available. So there's no question of hypocrisy. It's not as if we are saying, "trans people should get care, but similarly situated cis women shouldn't." We're saying, "everyone should get care."
2. Whether or not the child makes the decision by theirself or has parental involvement doesn't seem like an important issue in this debate at all. What about the position that "it's not the state's business" is taking sides about whether parents should be involved? That's not the issue. I mean, if you want to make it the issue, I don't really care. It would change nothing, because parental consent is already required. It's required 99% of the time for medical care for minors.
3. The reason that abortion is treated differently -- well, one reason I suppose -- is that parents often have ulterior agendas on this one. Some significant percentage of girls who secretly get abortions are impregnated by their father or a close relative, and those people are almost by definition not going to have the girl's interests in mind. There are also parents who believe abortion is sinful, and would therefore refuse to give permission for reasons that have nothing to do with medical need.
Are there kids who could benefit from transgender treatments, but whose parents would deny them out of a belief such treatments are wrong or sinful or whatever? Yes. And if that becomes a problem later down the road, we can have a debate about parental consent. But we're not at that point yet. We're fighting for the procedure to be available at all. If making care available means that 75% of the kids who could benefit from it will (with 25% born to parents who would refuse), that's 75% more than under the TN law.
Does this answer your curiosity questions?
superrific
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Absolutely. I had a gf in college who drove four of her high school classmates (Catholic school, lol) across state borders to get an abortion, because the state where she lived had a notification law and the other state did not.
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I'm sure every case is unique and family dynamics are unique.
I would hope that if my child were in this situation, that they would come to us. But then my wife and I are not the types that would try and control the situation and force our preferred outcome on the situation.