SCOTUS Catch-all |

[lawtig02]

You can get a TRO in a class action.

Have you ever done that? I've tried many times and have never been successful.

ETA -- And even if you get it, the TRO is time limited. I can't find a way to read today's decision that would allow an injunction to be entered after the TRO expires.

 

[HintonJamesHeel]

Which book was that? I'm not familiar with the LGBTQ literature.

The books in question for elementary kids were:

• “Born Ready,” a story about Penelope, a student who identifies as a boy. “Teachers are told to instruct students that, at birth, doctors guess about our gender, but we know ourselves best”;
• “Love, Violet,” a story about two young girls and their same-sex playground romance. “Teachers are encouraged to have a think-aloud moment to ask students how it feels when they don’t just like but like like someone”; and
• “Intersection Allies,” a picture book for children to ponder what it means to be “transgender” or “non-binary” and asks, “what pronouns fit you?”

Parents wanted ability to opt out of the teachings. School board originally said ok but reversed course and mandated.

 

[p5mmr9]

Alright, I hate to ask this, but could someone (or someones) explain to me like the dullard I am what the injunction ruling means and its significance. Feel free to talk to me like I’m 10.

It means either litigants will have to seek class action status or all cases will be handled individually until or unless the Supreme Court decides to rule on the merits of a case and provide new precedent for all cases that are impacted by the given situation. The ruling just illustrates the ridiculousness of executive power creep and how far we've allowed Article 2 to stretch its authority. Both parties will come to rue this ruling but perhaps it will encourage some curbs of executive authority in the future.

 

[lawtig02]

There is literally a 0% chance today's decisions would have been decided the same way if SCOTUS was the same, but Obama was in the White House. 0%.

 

[Calheel]

Have you ever done that? I've tried many times and have never been successful.

ETA -- And even if you get it, the TRO is time limited. I can't find a way to read today's decision that would allow an injunction to be entered after the TRO expires.

We will have to wait to see how the jurisprudence unfolds. My best guess is that the TRO/PI will usually be issued on a nonclass basis with the permanent issued on a class basis.

 

[Oddball]

I am still confused as to exactly how this became the "conservative" legal position (other than the obvious kowtow to whatever dear leader espouses).

We are undergoing a major political realignment and terms like "conservative" do not seem to mean what they did for the last 40 or 50 years.

I mean, J. Michael Luttig is undoubtedly one of the preeminent "conservative" jurists, at least by all previous understanding of that term, and he has been quite vocal about his disdain for Trump's legal arguments.

Nothing from this Coward Court strikes me as being aligned with "conservative principles", in fact quite the opposite.

But if "conservative" now means full fledged authoritarianism, then the Court is the new standard bearer and Trumpism really has scored a total victory over what used to be the "conservative" party.

 

[nycfan]

Here’s the thing, nationwide injunctions by district court judges used to be rare. It is only in the 21st Century that this remedy has become more common, particularly in the last decade or so. The Harvard Law Review had an extensive article on the subject in April of last year:

District Court Reform: Nationwide Injunctions - Harvard Law Review

On November 18, 2022, months after the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, a group of antiabortion doctors and organizations brought suit in the...

harvardlawreview.org

The article at the time identified only 127 total nationwide injunctions from Feb 1963 through 2023. Of those, 96 had occurred since 2000. [The authors indicate that the recent trend is understated because it does not include vacatur, which generally has the same effect but is technically distinct from an injunction]

It does seem the practice has spiraled out of control and needed reform. But it is also telling that SCOTUS chose to rein them in on this case.

The issue is going to be how restrictive the new decision is and I haven’t yet had time to read it myself, so cannot comment on that (not that I am an expert in this area in any event).

 

[lawtig02]

I am still confused as to exactly how this became the "conservative" legal position (other than the obvious kowtow to whatever dear leader espouses).

We are undergoing a major political realignment and terms like "conservative" do not seem to mean what they did for the last 40 or 50 years.

I mean, J. Michael Luttig is undoubtedly one of the preeminent "conservative" jurists, at least by all previous understanding of that term, and he has been quite vocal about his disdain for Trump's legal arguments.

Nothing from this Coward Court strikes me as being aligned with "conservative principles", in fact quite the opposite.

But if "conservative" now means full fledged authoritarianism, then the Court is the new standard bearer and Trumpism really has scored a total victory over what used to be the "conservative" party.

Yep

Yep. Conservatism now = authoritarianism. Or, to be a little more specific, conservatism now = Divine Right = monarchism = authoritarianism.

 

[Centerpiece]

Maga getting tired of winning.
DOW up too, all time highs again forecasted.

I guess the good old USA trends better with 1850’s law of the land.
It really wasn’t that bad a time for a straight, white, married, landowner like me.

The will of the people has spoken.

 

[UNCatTech]

Mahmoud is next. The conservatives find that parents should have the ability to opt their kids out of public school activities they find offensive or against their religion. No shock based on prior terms, but I literally cannot image how anyone could have the patience to be a public school teacher these days. They get no support whatsoever from the federal government.

Interesting.

My years in church saw many families that avoided public schools. Their choices went beyond banking materials, it often took the side of teaching that LBGTQ was wrong and unnatural. YET, such a high percentage of those sheltered children came out as gay or Trans as adults.

It was also noted by the youth minister that one child questioned sexual and suicide during some Sunday school classes prior to committing suicide. I've wondered if the youth minister's answer was "pray about it" and if so how he felt when it became apparent why the kid was asking.

 

[ncgirlinfl]

I’m sure he justified it as God’s Will or some other bs excuse that allows him to continue riding on his high horse.

 

[nycfan]

Mahmoud is next. The conservatives find that parents should have the ability to opt their kids out of public school activities they find offensive or against their religion. No shock based on prior terms, but I literally cannot image how anyone could have the patience to be a public school teacher these days. They get no support whatsoever from the federal government.

This decision could cause chaos in school curriculum as parents could claim opt out rights for all manner of lessons. The result will likely mostly be public schools becoming much more limited in what they teach in order to avoid the issue altogether. Otherwise, what to do with the opt out kids on any given day? It’s not like public schools are swimming in extra resources to have an opt-out instructor to handle regular opt-outs from any class.

 

[lawtig02]

This decision could cause chaos in school curriculum as parents could claim opt out rights for all manner of lessons. The result will likely mostly be public schools becoming much more limited in what they teach in order to avoid the issue altogether. Otherwise, what to do with the opt out kids on any given day? It’s not like public schools are swimming in extra resources to have an opt-out instructor to handle regular opt-outs from any class.

It's an absolutely colossal catastrophe for public schools, which is what the Pubs have been angling for all along.

 

[UNCatTech]

It’s like anything - the extreme ruins it for all. The book that started it all was teaching elementary school kids that a doctor was just randomly assigning sex at birth and had no insight into what the baby’s sex was.

There are noted cases where doctors played god in cases where nature didn't full distinguish the physical differences between male and female in a newborn child.

Even then no one knows the mind of a person regarding sexuality at birth.

 

[lawtig02]

It's an absolutely colossal catastrophe for public schools, which is what the Pubs have been angling for all along.

I'm trying to think of an analogy. Maybe if every American 65+ had a legal right to enroll in Medicare, but every person could decide (a) what they want to have covered, and (b) what they wanted to pay for that coverage.

 

[superrific]

Nationwide injunctions are gone. Which would have gutted the civil rights movement, but on a positive note, fuck you Matthew Kacsmaryk.

Not exactly. I can maybe say more later, but I do not hate this opinion. Basically the court viewed the universal injunction as a workaround for class certification (which is sort of correct) and the unavailability of the universal injunction does not preclude a nationwide class.

This isn't a terrible ruling because it knocks out the true bullshit: the 5th Circuit assholes who enjoin the prescription of drugs because of bullshit complaints by a tiny fraction of doctors. No way to make that class certifiable. The birthright citizenship issue is eminently suitable for class certification.

I'd have to think about this more, but my first thoughts are that it's fine. It isn't the rule I would have adopted, but at the moment I don't see too many problems here. I am open to other thoughts, of course, and reserve the right to edit my own if I think about it more.

 

[akillesheel]

i think this is basically the only valid take on the situation. far from being made great, everything about the US worth being proud of has been or is being destroyed.

 

[nycfan]

 

[BlooVooDoo]

Justices Let Parents Opt Children Out of Classes With L.G.B.T.Q. Storybooks​

Maryland parents have a religious right to withdraw their children from classes on days that stories with gay and transgender themes are discussed, the court ruled.

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www.nytimes.com

Decision: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24-297_4f14.pdf

How long before Christian nutters take another swing at opting out of classroom discussion of evolution?

 

[nycfan]