So-called Anti-Woke, Anti-DEI policy catch-all

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Ok. I don't agree with it, but the fact that veterans actually DID something for the country makes it less offensive than my original view of DEI.
lololololol.

most of what the vast, vast majority of veterans did was collect a paycheck.

only @ 10% of the military ever sees combat. about half of them are never even deployed to a combat zone.

there are TONS of jobs that our country/society depends on that are significantly more dangerous on average and get none of the benefits or hero worship.
 
Ok. I don't agree with it, but the fact that veterans actually DID something for the country makes it less offensive than my original view of DEI.
On the other hand, people sign up for the military knowing the risks -- not just the risk of death in combat, but the risk of having difficulty with employment after service for a number of possible reasons. So unlike people who were merely born with darker skin, veterans made their choices. Why not let them lie in the bed they made?

Or we could just be empathetic to everyone and try to make the best America we can.
 
lololololol.

most of what the vast, vast majority of veterans did was collect a paycheck.

only @ 10% of the military ever sees combat. about half of them are never even deployed to a combat zone.

there are TONS of jobs that our country/society depends on that are significantly more dangerous on average and get none of the benefits or hero worship.
Just volunteering to put their lives on the line, if needed, is still doing more.
 
On the other hand, people sign up for the military knowing the risks -- not just the risk of death in combat, but the risk of having difficulty with employment after service for a number of possible reasons. So unlike people who were merely born with darker skin, veterans made their choices. Why not let them lie in the bed they made?

Or we could just be empathetic to everyone and try to make the best America we can.
I agree that they know the risks, but at least they are doing something that they decided to do and didn't just luck into government favoritism.
 
So this is not a DEI-based scholarship? Correct?

"Eligibility
In order to be eligible for the ACCESS program, a student must be a first-time freshman at Appalachian, attend full time (12 semester hours or more each semester), be a resident of North Carolina, and their guardians' adjusted gross income (AGI) cannot exceed 100% of the federal poverty guidelines set forth by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services each year. Additionally, a student's EFC (expected family contribution) must be zero after Verification of the student's filing of the FAFSA."

 
Just volunteering to put their lives on the line, if needed, is still doing more.
whoooooooosh.

again, the vast majority of them never put their lives on the line and are well aware that they never will when they join up.

it is far more dangerous to work in various sectors of construction, logging, trucking, commercial fishing, oil/gas/mining, etc. etc. than it is to join the military.
 
I read my South Carolina statehouse representative's "progress report" in the local newspaper this morning. He went on and on about how he and his brethren were going after DEI to end preferences and to restore "a fair merit driven system". YET, in the same article, he mentions preserving "veteran preferences".

If the goal is a merit-driven system with no preferences, how do veteran preferences factor into that system?


 
whoooooooosh.

again, the vast majority of them never put their lives on the line and are well aware that they never will when they join up.

it is far more dangerous to work in various sectors of construction, logging, trucking, commercial fishing, oil/gas/mining, etc. etc. than it is to join the military.
I don't know how else to explain this. Volunteering to put your life on the line, if called to do so, is still more than being born with a lot of melanin in your skin.

And again, I don't support the government picking winners, so I don't support the requirements to give veteran owned companies a certain amount of business. It's just less offensive than giving business based on irrelevant, surface level characteristics.
 
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Right. We agree. It's all the government picking winners. The only difference is that the veteran policy doesn't fall under DEI, so I can't call it DEI.
I’m a member of the veteran DEI group at work (though I myself am not a veteran).
 
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I don't know how else to explain this. Volunteering to put your life on the line, if called to do so, is still more than being born with a lot of melanin in your skin.

And again, I don't support the government picking winners, so I don't support the requirements to give veteran owned companies a certain amount of business. It's just less offensive than giving business based on irrelevant, surface level characteristics.
"more" what? that's your opinion, its not fact.

here are some facts: its a paid job, the vast majority of them never see conflict (and know that very well when they join) and there are TONS of much more dangerous essential jobs sprinkled all over various industries in our country.
 
"more" what? that's your opinion, its not fact.

here are some facts: its a paid job, the vast majority of them never see conflict (and know that very well when they join) and there are TONS of much more dangerous essential jobs sprinkled all over various industries in our country.
Of course "more" is opinion, but it's based on the fact that at least they did something. They may not have had to fight and risk their lives, but they decided to serve their country and decided to put themselves into a situation where fighting, and the associated risks, may be necessary. The other side of DEI is all people who just happened to fall into a bucket (melanin level, homosexual, trans etc) by chance. They didn't decide anything.
 
Zen agrees with John Roberts that we're a post racism country, and that the cultural hegemony never decides things for vast swaths of people, to those peoples' detriment. It's merely in the decision of the individual that we're to analyze - in a vacuum, absent of “irrelevant” and “archaic” factors such as well studied and well established systemic bigotries or value of diversified workforces.
 
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Of course "more" is opinion, but it's based on the fact that at least they did something. They may not have had to fight and risk their lives, but they decided to serve their country and decided to put themselves into a situation where fighting, and the associated risks, may be necessary. The other side of DEI is all people who just happened to fall into a bucket (melanin level, homosexual, trans etc) by chance. They didn't decide anything.
We get it now, dude. You've said it a thousand times. Your see DEI solely in terms of giving advantages to people, and particularly people you've never spoken up for on this board and to whom you have directed a LOT of animus. Of course, in order to play out this narrative, you have to consistently mischaracterize DEI programs and what they do/don't actually do. And no, I'm not doing that discussion again.

The rest of us see the value -- to everyone -- of a diverse society where most cultures are accepted, celebrated and woven into the national fabric. No, not melted in a pot. That shit is what brought us abominations like Olive Garden. When I would go the Brooklyn Academy of Music to see music or dance, I would usually eat West African food from one of the nearby West African places, run by people actually from West Africa. It was delicious. It was also pretty much the only time I would get quality West African food, as those restaurants aren't everywhere. My life became richer for the experience.

See, where you see melanin, I see culture. Where you see tits and ass, I see a valuable perspective from which I can potentially learn. Where you see undifferentiated masses, I see the distinctive qualities that make the tapestry of humankind so variegated, intricate and beautiful. Humans are at their absolute best -- on average -- when creating art and music. I've seen tons of cross-cultural concerts (e.g. pretty much the entire Silk Road concert series, klezmer musicians and jazz musicians collaborating to create New York Jazzmer, percussion festivals featuring North and South Indian drumming and usually other areas from the Middle East) and I've never seen anything other than joy from the musicians.

There's a reason why diverse companies are successful companies, and most successful companies are diverse. There's a reason that diverse corporate boards outperform companies with homogenous boards. There's a reason so much of the world's great music has a complex cultural lineage, borrowing from many different traditions.

That's the part of this whole discussion that you just toss out like unopened mail. I don't know if you can't get it or just refuse to try, but my life is way, way, way richer because of immigrants and diversity. It's richer the more I come into contact with them. The Indians who sell spices in their markets at 25-40% the cost of grocery store has allowed me to experiment and learn to cook delicious food from many traditions. The Indians who play tabla at graduation events make my life better, as tabla are (in my view) the greatest drums ever invented. My son's Chinese and Korean friends have opened his eyes to a whole culture that he hadn't seen before. Those are just a couple of many, many, many examples.
 
We get it now, dude. You've said it a thousand times. Your see DEI solely in terms of giving advantages to people, and particularly people you've never spoken up for on this board and to whom you have directed a LOT of animus. Of course, in order to play out this narrative, you have to consistently mischaracterize DEI programs and what they do/don't actually do. And no, I'm not doing that discussion again.

The rest of us see the value -- to everyone -- of a diverse society where most cultures are accepted, celebrated and woven into the national fabric. No, not melted in a pot. That shit is what brought us abominations like Olive Garden. When I would go the Brooklyn Academy of Music to see music or dance, I would usually eat West African food from one of the nearby West African places, run by people actually from West Africa. It was delicious. It was also pretty much the only time I would get quality West African food, as those restaurants aren't everywhere. My life became richer for the experience.

See, where you see melanin, I see culture. Where you see tits and ass, I see a valuable perspective from which I can potentially learn. Where you see undifferentiated masses, I see the distinctive qualities that make the tapestry of humankind so variegated, intricate and beautiful. Humans are at their absolute best -- on average -- when creating art and music. I've seen tons of cross-cultural concerts (e.g. pretty much the entire Silk Road concert series, klezmer musicians and jazz musicians collaborating to create New York Jazzmer, percussion festivals featuring North and South Indian drumming and usually other areas from the Middle East) and I've never seen anything other than joy from the musicians.

There's a reason why diverse companies are successful companies, and most successful companies are diverse. There's a reason that diverse corporate boards outperform companies with homogenous boards. There's a reason so much of the world's great music has a complex cultural lineage, borrowing from many different traditions.

That's the part of this whole discussion that you just toss out like unopened mail. I don't know if you can't get it or just refuse to try, but my life is way, way, way richer because of immigrants and diversity. It's richer the more I come into contact with them. The Indians who sell spices in their markets at 25-40% the cost of grocery store has allowed me to experiment and learn to cook delicious food from many traditions. The Indians who play tabla at graduation events make my life better, as tabla are (in my view) the greatest drums ever invented. My son's Chinese and Korean friends have opened his eyes to a whole culture that he hadn't seen before. Those are just a couple of many, many, many examples.

Other than the claimed correlation between diversity and success in business, which is disputed, your post is almost entirely a strawman. I never said I don't want cultural diversity in society. Especially when it comes to food, I actively SEEK cultural authenticity. I look for the hole-in-the-wall places, places where my wife often won't eat, because I want authentic Mexican food and not the lowest-common-denominator food from chain restaurants. I have no desire to have a melting pot or homogeneous society. Variety is a great thing. Now, do I want government subsidizing Indian restaurants because they can't survive on their own in a given town? Absolutely not. Do I want the government requiring state employees to spend 10% of their income at Indian restaurants? Absolutely not.

The fact that I don't want preference given by the government based on melanin, sexual attraction, etc is not animus. It comes from a belief that we are all just people and all the things that DEI prioritizes should be viewed as irrelevant. Yes, I believe DEI gives advantages to people. It gives advantages to non-white, non-straight, non-cis, etc people.
 
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Other than the claimed correlation between diversity and success in business, which is disputed, your post is almost entirely a strawman. I never said I don't want cultural diversity in society. Especially when it comes to food, I actively SEEK cultural authenticity. I look for the hole-in-the-wall places, places where my wife often won't eat, because I want authentic Mexican food and not the lowest-common-denominator food from chain restaurants. I have no desire to have a melting pot or homogeneous society. Variety is a great thing.

The fact that I don't want preference given by the government based on melanin, sexual attraction, etc is not animus. It comes from a belief that we are all just people and all the things that DEI prioritizes should be viewed as irrelevant. Yes, I believe DEI gives advantages to people. It gives advantages to non-white, non-straight, non-cis, etc people.
Translation: you want diversity on your terms. When you want it, how you want it. When you're up for Mexican food, good thing that there's a small family place -- but otherwise fuck the mexicans.

I'm not talking to you about this any more. Nothing you say on this topic makes any sense, and it continues to be infuriating the way you want to reduce everything to "melanin" and tits and ass.
 
Translation: you want diversity on your terms. When you want it, how you want it. When you're up for Mexican food, good thing that there's a small family place -- but otherwise fuck the mexicans.

I'm not talking to you about this any more. Nothing you say on this topic makes any sense, and it continues to be infuriating the way you want to reduce everything to "melanin" and tits and ass.
What are my "terms"? I don't want government requirements to subsidize Mexican restaurants or require that 10% of their catering spending be with Indian restaurants? I want people, restaurants, businesses, etc to succeed or fail based on their quality, not superficial, irrelevant characteristics and I want the government purchasing and doing business with the companies that deliver the best products and best services, not the company that has a guy on their board of directors that likes other guys touching his nuts.... yes, I'm being facetious.

If the best person for a job HAPPENS to be gay, GREAT! Hire them. If the person who qualified Harvard happened to be trans... great! Admit them.

What's next? An initiative to make sure there are enough red headed CEOs in the Fortune 500? Maybe enough brunettes in cheerleading? Should the government subsidize entertainment for brunettes because blondes have more fun? :rolleyes:

EDIT: Congress is more diverse than it has ever been. Why? Is it because there was an initiative to "elect more people with more than xxx amount of melanin" or did it happen organically?
 
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