So-called Anti-Woke, Anti-DEI policy catch-all

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superrific said:
OK, I suppose. It's unclear to me what "he's unfit and therefore unqualified" adds to "he's unfit" but sure. Won't argue about it.
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i guess....simply leaving it at unfit is probably tidier but isn't fitness part of qualification? anyway, good talk.
 
This is such an interesting conversation. My own perspective is that I enjoy and value conversations that arise from diversity and identities, and feel that they're important to understand the history of the US and the context for where we are now.

On the other hand, they do tend towards separation and division. There's also a kind of weird competitiveness about them, so "Oh, you're a lesbian? Well, I'm a black lesbian" -> "Oh, you're a black lesbian? I'm a black lesbian who has epilepsy" kind of thing going on.

So while I value DEI stuff and see its importance, it's not being balanced by anything meaningful. So I'm rewriting my classes (big world civ survey classes) that start with human universals (death, sexual desire, grief, giving birth, anger, hunger, ego, etc) and have students investigate/interrogate cultures based on themes drawn from human universals. These are things that we all share in common, regardless of our race, religion, sexual orientation, economic status, etc.

I just started this last week...pretty interesting so far, but I'm going to end up writing my entire curricula around it. I'll let you know how it goes...
 
rodoheel said:
This is a very limited understanding of modern DEI practices that has little basis in reality. I personally agree that trying to frame DEI as "who has the most victim points based on their background" can be unproductive, but that is a small proportion of the things that conservatives lump in with "DEI." it's the epitome of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. At a fundamental level, most DEI programming is simply about trying to understand and empathize with people who come from different backgrounds, and to understand how and why things that seem innocuous to many people can be hurtful and marginalizing to others. I find it hard to believe that most people would really disagree that trying to understand each other better and treat everyone fairly are worthy goals. The disagreement is just about methods and message, but many of the people who criticize DEI and ?woke" have a very warped understanding of how varied those methods and messages really are.
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While I think there is some overlap between wokeness and DEI, I definitely don't see them as the same.

Wokeness being the belief that any inequality between you (some combination of trans, gay, female and of color) and a cis, straight, white male is explained by the racism, bigotry or misogyny of the cis, white straight male.

The D in DEI is the solution for the above perceived issue. You are intentionally hiring and promoting people who aren't cis, straight, white males.
 
ZenMode said:
Wokeness being the belief that any inequality between you (some combination of trans, gay, female and of color) and a cis, straight, white male is explained by the racism, bigotry or misogyny of the cis, white straight male.
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This is, candidly, just about the most insane definition of "wokeness" I have ever seen. I can understand that if someone has internalized the above definition as what "wokeness" is, they would hate it. But you would be hard pressed to find anyone in the world who endorses the statement above, much less some sort of official program or grant that has been made in support of it. Not even the proponents of "white privilege" (which I know super hates!) would define it this way.
 
rodoheel said:
This is, candidly, just about the most insane definition of "wokeness" I have ever seen. I can understand that if someone has internalized the above definition as what "wokeness" is, they would hate it. But you would be hard pressed to find anyone in the world who endorses the statement above, much less some sort of official program or grant that has been made in support of it. Not even the proponents of "white privilege" (which I know super hates!) would define it this way.
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My definition may not be complete or scholarly and doesn't take into consideration the historical meaning of woke, but, in the real world and as far as how the two concepts overlap, I think you would be hard-pressed to dispute what I said.
 
rodoheel said:
This is, candidly, just about the most insane definition of "wokeness" I have ever seen. I can understand that if someone has internalized the above definition as what "wokeness" is, they would hate it. But you would be hard pressed to find anyone in the world who endorses the statement above, much less some sort of official program or grant that has been made in support of it. Not even the proponents of "white privilege" (which I know super hates!) would define it this way.
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Kendi has written pretty much what Zenmode said. That guy couldn't help the GOP more if he tried.
 
ZenMode said:
My definition may not be complete and doesn't take into consideration the historical meaning of woke, but, in the real world and as far as how the two concepts overlap, I think you would be hard-pressed to dispute what I said.
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It's true of Kendi and maybe a couple of others and rejected by 99.9%.
 
superrific said:
It's true of Kendi and maybe a couple of others and rejected by 99.9%.
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If we're talking about how The concepts of wokeness and DEI are expressed in the real world, can you tell me what in my description is functionally inaccurate?

Is the D in DEI not about bringing in more people of color, homosexual, trans and female rather than cis, white, straight males?
 
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ZenMode said:
While I think there is some overlap between wokeness and DEI, I definitely don't see them as the same.

Wokeness being the belief that any inequality between you (some combination of trans, gay, female and of color) and a cis, straight, white male is explained by the racism, bigotry or misogyny of the cis, white straight male.

The D in DEI is the solution for the above perceived issue. You are intentionally hiring and promoting people who aren't cis, straight, white males.
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Your definition of "wokeness" is fucking idiotic. And it explains a lot about you as a person.
 
McAdooSmackinYou said:
there's something so perfect that the same people willing to upend the global order and destroy democracy because of wokeness and DEI don't even know what the terms mean
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CRT, DEI, woke.....the right wing fever swamp nerve center really knows how to repackage these things and turn them into ultimate bogeymen.

the oligarchs and the heritage foundation goons, etc. etc. are all laughing wildly while they rob all of us blind.
 
On another thread it was mentioned that the NFL is changing the message on the field since the Snowflake in Chief will be in attendance..

I know someone is going through Kendrick Lamar’s halftime set with a fine tooth comb to make sure he doesn’t debut a Trump diss track.
 
1moretimeagain said:
On another thread it was mentioned that the NFL is changing the message on the field since the Snowflake in Chief will be in attendance..

I know someone is going through Kendrick Lamar’s halftime set with a fine tooth comb to make sure he doesn’t debut a Trump diss track.
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that would be wild. absolute cinema.

but i bet that his contract stipulates that he sticks to the hits.
 
4thgenheel said:
CRT, DEI, woke.....the right wing fever swamp nerve center really knows how to repackage these things and turn them into ultimate bogeymen.

the oligarchs and the heritage foundation goons, etc. etc. are all laughing wildly while they rob all of us blind.
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yet we'll have 800 page threads on how he NYT hasn't had enough Iowa diner research to understand the plight and perspectives of rural whites or how the Dems look down on morons. These people have been played for the fools they are by the ruling class but about a third of left voters have convinced themselves that this somehow reflects a Dem failure to connect or communicate. Not the intentional Republican/Russian manipulation of people incapable of the most basic critical reasoning that democracy requires.
 
"trickle down economics work! and look over there at those homos and abortions and brown people! its outrageous!"

done and dusted.
 
ZenMode said:
Is the D in DEI not about bringing in more people of color, homosexual, trans and female rather than cis, white, straight males?
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What does that have to do with this sentence that you wrote:

"Wokeness being the belief that any inequality between you (some combination of trans, gay, female and of color) and a cis, straight, white male is explained by the racism, bigotry or misogyny of the cis, white straight male."

Those two aren't remotely the same thing, so even if you interpret the D in your weird fashion (one would think a college sports fan would be able to comprehend the difference between recruiting and quotas, but anyway), it's still nowhere near justifying what you wrote.
 
superrific said:
What does that have to do with this sentence that you wrote:

"Wokeness being the belief that any inequality between you (some combination of trans, gay, female and of color) and a cis, straight, white male is explained by the racism, bigotry or misogyny of the cis, white straight male."

Those two aren't remotely the same thing, so even if you interpret the D in your weird fashion (one would think a college sports fan would be able to comprehend the difference between recruiting and quotas, but anyway), it's still nowhere near justifying what you wrote.
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If you take it out of context, it probably doesn't make much sense. I explained what I meant, which is that DEI is a so-called fix for The perceived issues that are the basis for weakness.



The D in DEI is the solution for the above perceived issue. You are intentionally hiring and promoting people who aren't cis, straight, white males.
 
ZenMode said:
Wokeness being the belief that any inequality between you (some combination of trans, gay, female and of color) and a cis, straight, white male is explained by the racism, bigotry or misogyny of the cis, white straight male.
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“…a view that there are systemic injustices in American society and the need to have policies that address them.”

- Ron DeSantis’s attorney in court when asked by a judge to define “woke.”
 
farce© said:
“…a view that there are systemic injustices in American society and the need to have policies that address them.”

- Ron DeSantis’s attorney in court when asked by a judge to define “woke.”
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I agree that there is "a view".....

"A view" is just another way of saying an opinion and I agree that many people have an opinion that there are systems that people "view" as racist or discriminatory.
 
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