The board is boring now

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MendotoManteo said:
This is a good point. I just returned from North Carolina for the holidays, and I spent a night with my best buddy who I grew up with and is a Trump supporter. Even has Trump 45-47 bumper sticker on back of his truck, which I had to endure following him to his home.

Talking with him and his wife in the kitchen, while making delicious food, however, showed me they're not mindless hate machines.

I still think it largely irrational, because I realized they didn't fully understand things, but listening to them in such an environment helped me better understand the MAGA mindset.

That being said, the generalizations we draw here and elsewhere about MAGA (or conservatives at large) are not necessarily inaccurate.
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"but listening to them in such an environment helped me better understand the MAGA mindset."

Please share your insights, because, even after 8+ years of this crap, I'm still completely baffled by the MAGA mindset.
 
Bobfripp said:
"but listening to them in such an environment helped me better understand the MAGA mindset."

Please share your insights, because, even after 8+ years of this crap, I'm still completely baffled by the MAGA mindset.
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I'm curious as well how he'd describe it, as I'm well-acquainted with MAGA and I'm curious what takeaways he got from this experience.
 
Bobfripp said:
"but listening to them in such an environment helped me better understand the MAGA mindset."

Please share your insights, because, even after 8+ years of this crap, I'm still completely baffled by the MAGA mindset.
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Of course someone would ask about this. Lol. Glad you did though. Honestly, our conservation concerned more about religion, me being an atheist and them being conservative Christians, as I once was.

That being said, my buddy has always been a good-natured guy. Doesn't naturally hate anyone. I wouldn't describe him as a bigot, although he certainly grew up in an environment of bigotry and has retained some of that thinking, at least subconsciously. But, for instance, one of our biologically male high school friends eventually came out as a woman. He refers to her as "she/her," despite the fact that individual's own brother (who I randomly met at a brewery in town while back) will not.

I think we need to distinguish two types of MAGA. There are those, like my buddy, who support and love Trump - I think largely because they're conservatives (again, conservatism is merely about hierarchy, not principle) and everyone else around them has always been conservative and everyone around them is "good" so why do something else, sort of thing. (Again, irrational.) And then there is MAGA, as we tend to think of it as just a complete robotic, hate machine that wants to punish all difference. The two converge to an extent. How could they not? But they're not necessarily the same.

Perhaps the best view into the mindset comes from my father, who I had hoped was converted after his criticism of Jan. 6th. But I obviously guessed wrong. It became clear to me while back home that he had voted for Trump in 2024 and was ready for his re-entrance. I'd put WBTV from Charlotte on, mostly because I like the weather reporting and reminded me of my childhood back home for some nostalgia. Every time, it would devolve into the murders from Charlotte recently and the gang shootout that involved a school bus back in late December. That all the perpetrators were black certainly didn't help. This seemed to confirm his suspicion that the world was going to hell and that "people are so mean now" despite my contestation that crime is actually down, whatever the case may be in Charlotte.

This did not matter. Everything is the "worst ever!" Dad will get a good laugh out of videos on social media of cute cats (he's a cat dude), but, like so many others, that's not why he goes there. He goes there and to WBTV, for that matter, to get enraged. They provide him with clear targets, instead of nuance. It makes him and so many others feel significant. Like they know something the rest of us still have yet to figure out. Makes them feel important, especially because their lives are so peaceful, boring, and insignificant.

They don't even realize it. It's just so ingrained in them, they can't be any other way.

Not necessarily hateful people by nature but just small people incapable of dealing with nuance.

This certainly will not explain MAGA to you but hopefully it at least helps. They're not all utter assholes. Many of them just can't process nuance. They need meaning in their lives, because they have things so good. And Trump apparently provides them with that meaning. Even the ones who aren't full cult.
 
I guess what I'm trying to say is Trump establishes a clear narrative, despite how dumb and moronic he and it is.

This provides meaning for many, especially the conspiratorial aspects of the narrative.

They're not all natural assholes or racists (yes, they succumb to racist thoughts) but it works for them in a world devoid of apparent meaning when most of them can get an orange from the produce section in winter time.

Basically, many of them are well-intentioned but bored, spoiled people. I guess I would equate it to how, in sports, you need a "heel." We need our Dallas Cowboys. Our Alabama Crimson Tide. Our Duke Blue Devils. Makes things interesting and establishes clear good v. evil for those lacking nuance.
 
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MendotoManteo said:
Of course someone would ask about this. Lol. Glad you did though. Honestly, our conservation concerned more about religion, me being an atheist and them being conservative Christians, as I once was.

That being said, my buddy has always been a good-natured guy. Doesn't naturally hate anyone. I wouldn't describe him as a bigot, although he certainly grew up in an environment of bigotry and has retained some of that thinking, at least subconsciously. But, for instance, one of our biologically male high school friends eventually came out as a woman. He refers to her as "she/her," despite the fact that individual's own brother (who I randomly met at a brewery in town while back) will not.

I think we need to distinguish two types of MAGA. There are those, like my buddy, who support and love Trump - I think largely because they're conservatives (again, conservatism is merely about hierarchy, not principle) and everyone else around them has always been conservative and everyone around them is "good" so why do something else, sort of thing. (Again, irrational.) And then there is MAGA, as we tend to think of it as just a complete robotic, hate machine that wants to punish all difference. The two converge to an extent. How could they not? But they're not necessarily the same.

Perhaps the best view into the mindset comes from my father, who I had hoped was converted after his criticism of Jan. 6th. But I obviously guessed wrong. It became clear to me while back home that he had voted for Trump in 2024 and was ready for his re-entrance. I'd put WBTV from Charlotte on, mostly because I like the weather reporting and reminded me of my childhood back home for some nostalgia. Every time, it would devolve into the murders from Charlotte recently and the gang shootout that involved a school bus back in late December. That all the perpetrators were black certainly didn't help. This seemed to confirm his suspicion that the world was going to hell and that "people are so mean now" despite my contestation that crime is actually down, whatever the case may be in Charlotte.

This did not matter. Everything is the "worst ever!" Dad will get a good laugh out of videos on social media of cute cats (he's a cat dude), but, like so many others, that's not why he goes there. He goes there and to WBTV, for that matter, to get enraged. They provide him with clear targets, instead of nuance. It makes him and so many others feel significant. Like they know something the rest of us still have yet to figure out. Makes them feel important, especially because their lives are so peaceful, boring, and insignificant.

They don't even realize it. It's just so ingrained in them, they can't be any other way.

Not necessarily hateful people by nature but just small people incapable of dealing with nuance.

This certainly will not explain MAGA to you but hopefully it at least helps. They're not all utter assholes. Many of them just can't process nuance. They need meaning in their lives, because they have things so good. And Trump apparently provides them with that meaning. Even the ones who aren't full cult.
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Thanks so much for sharing! My Dad, who died in 2013, sounds much the same as yours. My dad was gentle and wonderful man (mostly) , but I'm almost certain he would have been MAGA had he lived long enough. He was an OANN and Newsmax fan almost from the beginning. I tried to reason with him that those were largely false news sources - with many a Snopes.com explanation used to dissuade him - but to no avail.
 
Bobfripp said:
Thanks so much for sharing! My Dad, who died in 2013, sounds much the same as yours. My dad was gentle and wonderful man (mostly) , but I'm almost certain he would have been MAGA had he lived long enough. He was an OANN and Newsmax fan almost from the beginning. I tried to reason with him that those were largely false news sources - with many a Snopes.com explanation used to dissuade him - but to no avail.
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Thank you, Bob. I'm sorry about your dad. I get it.

It was really frustrating coming back home to see my dad still basically the same as always (wasn't the case last holidays at 2023-24, which is why I had more hope combined with his Jan. 6th disgust). Mom told me she voted for Kamala, despite some stupid protestations about her, but I just left it at that and hoped for the best. Regarding Dad, though, it was really disappointing.

Trump establishes a clear narrative, unlike liberals. Basically, "there are evil forces at work in the world, preventing you from having the 'good life' like me, and here they are!" then point finger. Liberalism, by nature, is nuanced, so it cannot find such a clear "moral" narrative, although it could certainly do better than what we've seen.

Many people, probably most, just can't grasp things beyond simple narratives. And, like I said earlier, once you throw in the conspiratorial element, where they feel like they have secret knowledge that the rest of us don't, you can forget about it. They have become as gods at that point. And nothing will stop them, so to speak.
 
PSA: Self scouting is a tremendous skill to work on everyday of your life. It will not only improve your relationships, it’ll improve your reading comprehension and ability to find yourself in, or not in, someone else’s commentary.
 
MendotoManteo said:
Thank you, Bob. I'm sorry about your dad. I get it.

It was really frustrating coming back home to see my dad still basically the same as always (wasn't the case last holidays at 2023-24, which is why I had more hope combined with his Jan. 6th disgust). Mom told me she voted for Kamala, despite some stupid protestations about her, but I just left it at that and hoped for the best. Regarding Dad, though, it was really disappointing.

Trump establishes a clear narrative, unlike liberals. Basically, "there are evil forces at work in the world, preventing you from having the 'good life' like me, and here they are!" then point finger. Liberalism, by nature, is nuanced, so it cannot find such a clear "moral" narrative, although it could certainly do better than what we've seen.

Many people, probably most, just can't grasp things beyond simple narratives. And, like I said earlier, once you throw in the conspiratorial element, where they feel like they have secret knowledge that the rest of us don't, you can forget about it. They have become as gods at that point. And nothing will stop them, so to speak.
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A large part of the issue is that a big portion of their voters are raised to believe that secret knowledge and special favor is a birthright. It doesn't have to make sense. They just have to be able to fit in into their belief system and they have very big hammers.
 
MendotoManteo said:
Many people, probably most, just can't grasp things beyond simple narratives. And, like I said earlier, once you throw in the conspiratorial element, where they feel like they have secret knowledge that the rest of us don't, you can forget about it. They have become as gods at that point. And nothing will stop them, so to speak.
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This doesn't explain the dramatic decrease in the civic comprehension of Americans in the last fifteen years. There was a time, I think, that Trump's lying would have been disqualifying (along with many other issues with his conduct). There was a time when Americans could keep two thoughts in their head at once. Heck, people do that in non-political settings all the time, and then act like fucking morons when it comes time to ponder the future of the country.

So what changed? Why does the electorate suck so much more now? I think it points to the centrality of the conspiratorial element -- which you expressly point to, and I would argue that it should be even more centered in our public discourse. The wide availability and general acceptance of a conspiratorial mindset is both such an important part of what ails us, and what connects our experience to the rest of the world, where right-wingers are on the rise. And that's because social media puts out an infinite quantity of that bullshit.

I don't know if it's "secret knowledge" or just permission to let loose the old prejudices that had in the past been squashed by at least something of a commitment to truth and reality, post-Watergate especially. It's probably both, in varying degrees for different people. But it's really significant.
 
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