The Charlie Kirk Thread

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So, in summary.....

Democrats have no part in the current political divide and have not contributed to the political violence because Trump has done all of it and democrats are only accurately describing Trump. No reckless hyperbole at all.

Got it.

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nycfan said:
I’ve read that the allegations that Hoover was a gay cross dresser have not been substantiated and are considered unproven — they apparently rely in large part on an unreliable witness (though I don’t recall the details now) who was the source of virtually all the rumors that followed.
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The cross dresser part is unsubstantiated, but not the gay part. His lifelong "close friend" Clyde Tolson sure as hell acted like a life partner. They would go on vacation together. Hoover bequeathed his estate to Tolson. Tolson accepted the flag that draped Hoover's coffin. Tolson is buried a few yards away from Hoover.

Roy Cohn was a source of information about Hoover, and he was definitely credible on that particular subject. Cohn's take was that Hoover was too scared of his sexuality to act on it, but that's still confirming that he was gay or bi. As for the cross-dressing, you're right a lot of the published material relies on an unreliable witness, but Roy Cohn apparently told people about it before it became a topic of public discussion. Now, that's hearsay and unreliable I think, but it's more than just one witness. That said, it is not well established at all.

The homo/bisexuality seems pretty solid, even if there are people who deny it. Another piece of evidence: Lela Rodgers was his beard.
 


“… The organized doxxing campaigns. The organized riots. The organized street violence. The organized of dehumanization. Vilification. Posting people’s addresses. Combining that with messaging designed to trigger and incite violence and the actual organized cells that carry out and facilitate the violence. It is a vast domestic terror movement. With God and as my witness, we are going to use every resource we have at the Department of Justice, Homeland Security and throughout this government to identify, disrupt, dismantle and destroy these networks, and make America safe again for the American people. It will happen, and we will do it in Charlie’s name. …”

[Vance nods along]
 
ZenMode said:
So, in summary.....

Democrats have no part in the current political divide and have not contributed to the political violence because Trump has done all of it and democrats are only accurately describing Trump. No reckless hyperbole at all.
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Ah, the last resort of scoundrels: the distortion of truth into all-or-nothing.

Nobody here is saying that Democrats "have no part." You can't make those sorts of categorical statements. I think we are saying the vast, vast majority of the stochastic terrorism and celebration of political violence comes from Trump and MAGA.

You remind me of a famous quote by an obscure NBA player (don't remember his name). He spoke fondly of the time he and Elgin Baylor combined to score 75 points. Elgin scored 73. Of course that player was saying it in jest; you seem to take it seriously.

Plus, the political divide predates Trump. We've talked at length about the Tea Party and Contract With/On America on this board. All the ingredients for Trumpism were there. What Trump did was channel it into a cult of personality characteristic of fascist movements. Nobody in the Tea Party claimed the mantle of Fuhrer until Trump came along and seized the crown.
 
ZenMode said:
So, in summary.....

Democrats have no part in the current political divide and have not contributed to the political violence because Trump has done all of it and democrats are only accurately describing Trump. No reckless hyperbole at all.

Got it.

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Have you read Project 2025?

Serious question.

Have you read it and then directly compared the individual policies Trump has put into place since he began his second term?

If not, shut the fuck up and go read it. Until then, don’t sit here and lecture us on refusing to observe quietly from a distance as our country is undone by a party hell-bent on obtaining power and keeping it at all costs.
 
nycfan said:


“… The organized doxxing campaigns. The organized riots. The organized street violence. The organized of dehumanization. Vilification. Posting people’s addresses. Combining that with messaging designed to trigger and incite violence and the actual organized cells that carry out and facilitate the violence. It is a vast domestic terror movement. With God and as my witness, we are going to use every resource we have at the Department of Justice, Homeland Security and throughout this government to identify, disrupt, dismantle and destroy these networks, and make America safe again for the American people. It will happen, and we will do it in Charlie’s name. …”

[Vance nods along]
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Reichstag.
 
Icky Mettle said:
I can’t think of many occasions where the NFL held moments of silence for people who either were not affiliated with the NFL or were not members of the community where the moment of silence took place. And it’s especially difficult to wrap my head around someone whose claim to fame was essentially saying so many cruel, divisive, hateful, and inflammatory things getting a moment of silence at such an event.
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That's because the NFL's popularity is mostly MAGA.

Ever since Trump, the NBA's ratings have been down, whereas the NFL's has been up. That's in large measure because of the different stances that the leagues take with respect to racism and politics. In the NFL, players are mostly faceless. Not in the NBA. And that makes a huge difference.
 
nycfan said:


“… The organized doxxing campaigns. The organized riots. The organized street violence. The organized of dehumanization. Vilification. Posting people’s addresses. Combining that with messaging designed to trigger and incite violence and the actual organized cells that carry out and facilitate the violence. It is a vast domestic terror movement. With God and as my witness, we are going to use every resource we have at the Department of Justice, Homeland Security and throughout this government to identify, disrupt, dismantle and destroy these networks, and make America safe again for the American people. It will happen, and we will do it in Charlie’s name. …”

[Vance nods along]
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The projection by Miller is astounding.
 
superrific said:
Ah, the last resort of scoundrels: the distortion of truth into all-or-nothing.
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I haven't been able to get a single Dem poster to acknowledge meaningful involvement of their party in this current situation.
superrific said:
Nobody here is saying that Democrats "have no part." You can't make those sorts of categorical statements.
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I can if they apply.
superrific said:
I think we are saying the vast, vast majority of the stochastic terrorism and celebration of political violence comes from Trump and MAGA.
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Right. Dems have no meaningful involvement. Dems are just "calling it like it is and, I mean, they're right, so what's wrong with saying what is true?"

Standard stuff for which I have no cure.
 
It seems like MAGA has totally forgotten Minnesota House of Representatives Speaker Emerita Melissa Hortman and her husband, killed by a right-wing lunatic. Where is their 'moment of silence'? And, unlike Kirk, Ms. Hortman wasn't spreading hate and lies.
 
ZenMode said:
I haven't been able to get a single Dem poster to acknowledge meaningful involvement of their party in this current situation.

I can if they apply.

Right. Dems have no meaningful involvement. Dems are just "calling it like it is and, I mean, they're right, so what's wrong with saying what is true?"

Standard stuff for which I have no cure.
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It might help your case if you could produce examples of Dems having meaningful involvement. You're one of those morons who thinks Obama was "divisive" when in reality he bent over backwards to be bipartisan. Obama's 2004 DNC speech was considered to be an implicit rebuke of John Edwards' "two Americas" campaign stylings -- which itself was mostly a chronicle of the relative privilege of the rich over the poor.

You watched Kamala campaign with Liz Cheney. You're saying that Dems are "meaningfully involved" in the division when a great deal of their electoral strategy in the most recent election was the sanctity of bipartisan democracy? Kamala and Liz Cheney never agreed on anything, and they made a show of coming together. You know, in the tradition of "the loyal opposition." That was the tenor of the J6 Committee as well.
 
superrific said:
Could you expand on this a bit. I'm not sure I catch your meaning.
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"chaser" is slang in the trans community for people who seek out trans people for sexual partners because of a fetish they have about transness. and pretty often, they're folks who will publicly denigrate trans people or "ideology."

kind of a more contemporary analog of the stories you'll hear from older gay men about their relationships and escapades with men in hetero marriages.
 
akillesheel said:
"chaser" is slang in the trans community for people who seek out trans people for sexual partners because of a fetish they have about transness. and pretty often, they're folks who will publicly denigrate trans people or "ideology."

kind of a more contemporary analog of the stories you'll hear from older gay men about their relationships and escapades with men in hetero marriages.
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Got it. Yes, I agree.
 
akillesheel said:
yeah, i realize now it was unclear but i was adding to your point, not responding
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No problem at all. We're good. Plus, your post is only confusing for those who don't know what "chasers" mean. That's at least partly my responsibility -- but now I know, which is one reason to participate in a message board like this.
 
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