"The Last of Us" (Inclusive: both games, both TV seasons--spoiler spores warning)

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an0maly

an0maly

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Don't know if this thread will get a lot of attention, but the first game and the first season were, respectively, astoundingly brilliant and very good. I thought people might want to evaluate season 2 here, and my enthusiasm for it is something between very low and highly skeptical. I will come back to that. Saw the first episode of season 2 and thought it was flawed but pretty good.

The initial 2013 video game was so great it raised the art form to a new level, and has been frequently hailed as the greatest game ever made. Playing this game, was one of the most incredible experiences I have had. Nobody that played it will care that such praise will raise an eyebrow on some people who have never played great video games. If you don't know then you can't know, and it's akin to explaining a stunning sunset to a blind person. It was a deeply emotional experience in which I cared about the characters--as one does in the best films--but also experienced being one of the characters, and living the character experiences in the game world. It was called the Citizen Kane of games, but that film was not universally praised on release the way The Last of Us instantly was. In fact few works this century have gotten so much praise. The settings, concepts and the premise (scientifically justified "zombies" from the very real idea of Cordyceps fungus) were great, but the depth of the story and the characters really drove all the praise. Season 1 of the HBO/Max show captured a lot of that quality, for the most part, though there were valid complaints it did it too fast in too few episodes.

You must see season 1 to take on season 2, but nobody really needs to have played either game to enjoy and understand the series. I read about the controversial aspects of part 2 of the game and chose not to play it, and I will probably get into that later if someone is interested. I did watch extensive game play on YouTube to know what and why I did not play it.

I assume spoilers will infect (pun) this thread, but probably best to give warnings.
 
I'll mark this for when I can start watching.

Season one was great and the thread on the IC ZZL was fun also.
 
an0maly said:
Don't know if this thread will get a lot of attention, but the first game and the first season were, respectively, astoundingly brilliant and very good. I thought people might want to evaluate season 2 here, and my enthusiasm for it is something between very low and highly skeptical. I will come back to that. Saw the first episode of season 2 and thought it was flawed but pretty good.

The initial 2013 video game was so great it raised the art form to a new level, and has been frequently hailed as the greatest game ever made. Playing this game, was one of the most incredible experiences I have had. Nobody that played it will care that such praise will raise an eyebrow on some people who have never played great video games. If you don't know then you can't know, and it's akin to explaining a stunning sunset to a blind person. It was a deeply emotional experience in which I cared about the characters--as one does in the best films--but also experienced being one of the characters, and living the character experiences in the game world. It was called the Citizen Kane of games, but that film was not universally praised on release the way The Last of Us instantly was. In fact few works this century have gotten so much praise. The settings, concepts and the premise (scientifically justified "zombies" from the very real idea of Cordyceps fungus) were great, but the depth of the story and the characters really drove all the praise. Season 1 of the HBO/Max show captured a lot of that quality, for the most part, though there were valid complaints it did it too fast in too few episodes.

You must see season 1 to take on season 2, but nobody really needs to have played either game to enjoy and understand the series. I read about the controversial aspects of part 2 of the game and chose not to play it, and I will probably get into that later if someone is interested. I did watch extensive game play on YouTube to know what and why I did not play it.

I assume spoilers will infect (pun) this thread, but probably best to give warnings.
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IMO, the story in part 2 is superior to 1. Layered characters get more layers, new characters feel like whole people, and the antagonist v protagonist push/pull is done in a manner you really can’t exploit in other media. I found it astoundingly gripping. I also found it utterly exhausting. The biggest issue with tlou2, the game, is the sheer brutality. Holy shit. Fuck. Upon finishing the game, I literally googled “is Neil Druckmann a sociopath?” Mazin has said the second season won’t have anywhere near the violence of tlou2, and that’s a very good thing.
That said, they don’t have a choice, over season 2 and 3, but to traumatize the audience, or else fail to represent the POV of the IP.
 
WaynetheDrain said:
Anxiously awaiting the Rat King.
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Spoilers:

I expect to start season two in a couple of weeks. I like to watch the previous season again, before watching the new. For tlou2, I’m also replaying the game and just got through the Rat King. The entire quarantine ward of the hospital is fucking horrifying. The fact the skyscraper comes just before and the Seraphite Island through the theater comes right after makes for a 3-4 hour stretch of gaming that is unparalleled in its ability to crushingly exhaust.
 
Did not play the game but I did watch season 1. I thought it was okay. Didn’t love the first episode of season 2 but I will continue for now.
 
That was a great episode. I mean really fantastic. Gave me GoT vibes. I was admittedly underwhelmed by the end of season 1 as well as the season 2 premiere, but I'm fully on board again.
 
UNCatTech said:
Why?

I didn't play the game, so I wasn't prepared for that.
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That feeling of betrayal you are feeling over their decision regarding Joel? Now, imagine playing through the game and being forced to play as Abby for about half of the time after that happened.

Gamers everywhere were PISSED. In retrospect, it turned out to be a really good design choice in terms of story-telling, but it was an awful gut-punch to all of us who played the first game.
 
WaynetheDrain said:
That feeling of betrayal you are feeling over their decision regarding Joel? Now, imagine playing through the game and being forced to play as Abby for about half of the time after that happened.

Gamers everywhere were PISSED. In retrospect, it turned out to be a really good design choice in terms of story-telling, but it was an awful gut-punch to all of us who played the first game.
Click to expand...
First play through of tlou2, I set the game aside for a couple of days following the switch to Abby. From killing Joel to Seattle Day1 and Day2, I was spent.
 
So here we are, and the show's viewership has cratered, but hey, the viewer ratings have cratered even worse. I could have called it, given Druckman's intransigence and ego, but I thought maybe there would be some sort of shifting and adjustments to improve the narrative.

I disagree with Healing's views above (except the sociopathy observation, if a bit facetious on my part), and will say more about my rejection of part 2 of the game and now my huge misgivings about the series direction that mirrors it.

The problem with the second game is that it transformed into something ridiculously bad because it tries to lamely teach you the BiG LeSsoN that revenge is meaningless, kids, and does it by forcing you to play a character you absolutely despise. That is a contrived, silly, ABC After-school Special thing for a game creator to come up with. Joel did what a father any would do in the first game. His own daughter was killed in front of him and his surrogate daughter, Ellie, unknown to her and without her consent, was to be killed to attempt a cure of some kind by a small and highly questionable group led by "a doctor" feeding their fever dream of saving humanity. Beyond his defense of her life of someone he now sees as his daughter, what he did was also proper because the so-called cure was clearly no certainty. They captured Joel and Ellie by force and violence--even the series shows them bashing Joel in the back of the head with a rifle. The fireflies were simply another group about power, and whatever confidence you assign the rag-tag group with the ability to fix the cordeceps outbreak worldwide, Joel was not going to morally allow Ellie to be killed. (Neil Druckman agrees with what I just wrote). The doctor also came at Joel with a knife to prevent the rescue.

So part 2 of the game asks the player to instantly see Abby as a valid equal, and to try to force you to not only take her side, but to begin to hate Ellie for going on the same revenge mission. This Ellie, who was gradually turned from possible future delinquent to someone who cared deeply about Joel (as he transformed in game one from a person who rejected almost all humanity, to someone who cared again in protecting Ellie) now is made cruel and trivial and simplistic. It was this way in the second game and they have made her the same rather disgusting persona in part 2 of the series.

I admit a lot of people were on board with how the second game changed as I described above. A good number of thse people who unfortunately just play video games to shoot things thought part 2 and being Abby was all "this is fine," but I always felt if this TV show adaptation likewise attempts make us hate Ellie and favor Abby it risks turning into the same awful, annoying mess.

So after the episode with the attack on Jackson (brilliantly staged, but lost and forgotten in the wake now) and the murder of Joel, we get a weepy episode, and one to set a path of more blind mad revenge, but now with a campy feel at times like a teenager buddy movie. To be clearly honest, both of these were largely filler material. Now we will see if the series is forced to keep right on following the second game and go from an immensely moving character story to "revenge-er-tainment" stuff, not at all unlike "Kill Bill" or "John Wick," or whatever similar Hollywood product.
 
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