The Rom Com Thread

superrific said:
My thoughts:

1. The best classic romantic comedy is L.A. Story. By "classic," I mean that both main characters are generally likeable and the obstacles to their relationship bliss are largely external. This one is Steve Martin's best movie, and bonus points for launching Sarah Jessica Parker. It's the perfect Steve Martin mix of high-brow and low-brow, except the high-brow is more prominent and that's good because I think Steve Martin is better at it (though it could just be my preference). Anyway, I've seen it a lot of times and I still laugh.

2. The best romantic comedy screenplay is As Good As It Gets. That's one of the best screenplays ever. It is so well-written from top to bottom. It's not a classic romantic comedy, in that the main obstacles to the characters getting together is that one of them is a complete ass, but it's still hilarious, crisp at all times, and has a wide emotional range.

3. Steve Martin's second best film is also a worthy romantic comedy: Roxanne. That one has some great gag scenes, and is also quite clever. It's telling that Roxanne is (very loosely) based on Cyrano de Bergerac, and LA story (very very loosely) on Shakespeare. The high-culture references anchor the films in something deeper, which is important for rom-coms because the genre gravitates to silly shallowness.

4. I've only seen Shakespeare in Love once, and it was a long time ago, and I was pretty tired and don't remember it well. But I do remember being impressed with it when I watched it.

5. I like the movie Big Fat Greek Wedding. I think it's very funny. Mileage on it might vary, though. Not sure I'd call it a great film or a great screenplay, but I always liked it.
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I hadn't really even thought about Steve Martin, regarding this conversation. I'll have to watch LA Story and Roxanne. Thank you for recommending!

Neither likely qualify as rom com, but what are your thoughts on his version of Father of the Bride and Novocaine? Also, can we reasonably consider The Jerk a rom com? I love The Jerk, but I don't know. It's iffy. I'm about to try to define the genre here shortly in another post.
 
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Icky Mettle said:
As for female leads in rom coms, Meg Ryan is the champ. She started in When Harry Met Sally…, Joe Versus the Volcano, Prelude to a Kiss, I.Q., Sleepless In Seattle, French Kiss, and You’ve Got Mail, among others.
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Yes! We need to talk more about female leads here. But, frankly, they don't strike me as remarkable as the male leads. That may be because of our patriarchal prejudices regarding "funny women."

But you're certainly right. I'd put Meg up there at the top. She's attractive but approachable. She's wholesome and good. Has some spunk.

I honestly can't think of another I'd put up there though. Sarah Jessica Parker is coming to mind, but I don't really like her. I don't know why. Kate Hudson has a similar thing going, like Meg, but just not the same.

That being said, Matthew McConaughey also a good male lead. The Wedding Planner and How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days.

So here we are back to the men again. Lol.
 
Bigs23 said:
Comedy?

Granted it is hard to not be romantic about baseball.
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I don't know if the other poster was being serious. Been a long time since I've watched Field of Dreams, but from what I can remember, I would not consider it a rom com by any means.

Like the conservation many of us have regarding whether or not Die Hard is a Christmas movie, we need to define facts. Die Hard is great! I love it to death. Watch it every Christmas. But it's not a Christmas movie. To be a Christmas movie, Christmas must be pivotal to the plot and action. In the case of Die Hard, Christmas doesn't truly matter. It's just a pleasant background. The film could take place during any other circumstances. Christmas is irrelevant.

So that gets us to rom com. What makes a film a romantic comedy? I'll define it as this:

1. Romance has to be the key focus of the plot and action.
2. Comedy must lead the overall emotional arc of the narrative, although it can have serious or even dark elements.

As I posited to Super, The Jerk is a real question here. I'll have to think about it more, but my impression is that The Jerk is not a rom com because it is more "biographical" than it is about their relationship. However, it is very complicated.
 
MendotoManteo said:
I don't know if the other poster was being serious. Been a long time since I've watched Field of Dreams, but from what I can remember, I would not consider it a rom com by any means.

Like the conservation many of us have regarding whether or not Die Hard is a Christmas movie, we need to define facts. Die Hard is great! I love it to death. Watch it every Christmas. But it's not a Christmas movie. To be a Christmas movie, Christmas must be pivotal to the plot and action. In the case of Die Hard, Christmas doesn't truly matter. It's just a pleasant background. The film could take place during any other circumstances. Christmas is irrelevant.

So that gets us to rom com. What makes a film a romantic comedy? I'll define it as this:

1. Romance has to be the key focus of the plot and action.
2. Comedy must lead the overall emotional arc of the narrative, although it can have serious or even dark elements.

As I posited to Super, The Jerk is a real question here. I'll have to think about it more, but my impression is that The Jerk is not a rom com because it is more "biographical" than it is about their relationship. However, it is very complicated.
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Not serious but it is a chick flick and not a sports movie.
 
Going to go old school on you all here. Any of ya'll ever seen His Girl Friday, with Cary Grant. I love Cary. My favorite actor. I sometimes rock his Breton look from To Catch a Thief.

It's the wittiest film I've ever seen. The back-and-forth is just incredible. You can't have it on in the background. You must watch it, closely.

And now I'll largely shut up and let you all respond. I've been running pretty wild here the past few posts.
 
finesse said:
Not serious but it is a chick flick and not a sports movie.
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Oh, I get you.

Just to be clear, rom com ain't "chick flick," although I don't necessarily mind them either.

There's a reason why we're all gravitating towards male leads here.

It's actually a very masculine genre.
 
Male leads likely have much longer careers in rom-coms than females; so, the male leads seem more dominant.

Tom Hanks, Steve Martin, Hugh Grant, Harrison Ford, Matthew McConaughey, Vince Vaughn, etc. feasibly could land a lead in a rom-com today; Meg Ryan, Goldie Hawn, Sandra Bullock, Cameron Diaz, and a host of female actors are no longer going to be cast as leads in a rom-com.
 
Zoo_View said:
Male leads likely have much longer careers in rom-coms than females; so, the male leads seem more dominant.

Tom Hanks, Steve Martin, Hugh Grant, Harrison Ford, Matthew McConaughey, Vince Vaughn, etc. feasibly could land a lead in a rom-com today; Meg Ryan, Goldie Hawn, Sandra Bullock, Cameron Diaz, and a host of female actors are no longer going to be cast as leads in a rom-com.
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This is an exceptional point, and I think connects to my description of the genre as inherently "masculine" in a post above.

We're a patriarchal culture, obviously. Young women are our prized possession, but outside that, men are often considered "more attractive" as they age. We devalue women as they age. As you said, this is probably why male leads dominate our minds and collective memory in this genre.

Thank you for bringing up Sandra Bullock. My god, what a woman! Julia Roberts too.
 
When Harry Met Sally is hands down the GOAT. Also love Harold and Maude as a non-traditional one.

I'll add two solid/underrated ones that I haven't seen mentioned - Blast From the Past and The Ringer.
 
MendotoManteo said:
This is an exceptional point, and I think connects to my description of the genre as inherently "masculine" in a post above.

We're a patriarchal culture, obviously. Young women are our prized possession, but outside that, men are often considered "more attractive" as they age. We devalue women as they age. As you said, this is probably why male leads dominate our minds and collective memory in this genre.

Thank you for bringing up Sandra Bullock. My god, what a woman! Julia Roberts too.
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Renee Zellweger, Jennifer Aniston, Andie MacDowell, Demi Moore, Michelle Pfeiffer, Drew Barrymore, Gwyneth Paltrow, and Helen Hunt (remember, aged Jack Nicholson was a legit lead in 1997’s As Good As It Gets) are a few more female leads.

The female leads have to be very attractive to HOT in rom-coms. Adam Sandler, the aforementioned old Jack Nicholson, Vince Vaughn, Bill Murray, and Billy Crystal are highly successful male leads in rom coms.
 
Zoo_View said:
Renee Zellweger, Jennifer Aniston, Andie MacDowell, Demi Moore, Michelle Pfeiffer, Drew Barrymore, Gwyneth Paltrow, and Helen Hunt (remember, aged Jack Nicholson was a legit lead in 1997’s As Good As It Gets) are a few more female leads.

The female leads have to be very attractive to HOT in rom-coms. Adam Sandler, the aforementioned old Jack Nicholson, Vince Vaughn, Bill Murray, and Billy Crystal are highly successful male leads in rom coms.
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Thank you for bringing the heat. I saw Demi Moore at the Golden Globes or whatever last weekend. She is 62 now. I am 40, and I would definitely, well, be a perfect gentleman with her. Lol. She defies the general narrative.

That being said, despite our obvious prejudices about looks, the more I've thought about it, I realize the genre is a masculine one because it's expected in our culture for men to take the lead. So, it's not a wonder, given that fact and our prejudices against aging females, that male leads dominate our memory here.
 
MendotoManteo said:
That being said, despite our obvious prejudices about looks, the more I've thought about it, I realize the genre is a masculine one because it's expected in our culture for men to take the lead. So, it's not a wonder, given that fact and our prejudices against aging females, that male leads dominate our memory here.
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When I think of rom-coms, I think of blond women. Meg Ryan, Helen Hunt, Goop, Victoria Tennant, Renee Zellwegger. I would not say that rom-coms are a "masculine" genre. They aren't "chick flicks" (if such things even exist), but they are also not male dominated.

To use some of the examples I have cited: clearly Steve Martin plays the most interesting characters in his movies. The female character in Greek Wedding is centered in the plot and is the most interesting character. As Good As It Gets -- well, one of the reasons that film is so great is that it doesn't have a single protagonist. Melvin Udall gets the most screen time and he has the most memorable dialogue, but he's not nearly the most interesting character. The drama in the film really comes from Helen Hunt's character, Carol, whose ambivalent and conflicted attitude toward Melvin -- as exemplified by the contrast to another interesting character, Simon -- drives the plot.

So of those four movies I remember, it's two-and-two. I would say that Sally is more interesting than Harry, although neither are that interesting to be honest. Renee Zellwegger is obviously the main character in Bridget Jones.

It's really a mix.
 
superrific said:
When I think of rom-coms, I think of blond women. Meg Ryan, Helen Hunt, Goop, Victoria Tennant, Renee Zellwegger. I would not say that rom-coms are a "masculine" genre. They aren't "chick flicks" (if such things even exist), but they are also not male dominated.

To use some of the examples I have cited: clearly Steve Martin plays the most interesting characters in his movies. The female character in Greek Wedding is centered in the plot and is the most interesting character. As Good As It Gets -- well, one of the reasons that film is so great is that it doesn't have a single protagonist. Melvin Udall gets the most screen time and he has the most memorable dialogue, but he's not nearly the most interesting character. The drama in the film really comes from Helen Hunt's character, Carol, whose ambivalent and conflicted attitude toward Melvin -- as exemplified by the contrast to another interesting character, Simon -- drives the plot.

So of those four movies I remember, it's two-and-two. I would say that Sally is more interesting than Harry, although neither are that interesting to be honest. Renee Zellwegger is obviously the main character in Bridget Jones.

It's really a mix.
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I get you. And you're not wrong. There's exceptions to every rule.

But, in general, I would define it as a "masculine" genre due to the fact it generally follows our own dating prejudices.
 
I've seen a number of you bring up Harold and Maude. One of yuns even posted a GIF from it.

Excuse my ignorance, but I always just assume it was some weird film about a young dude loving an old woman. There's Something About Mary cites it several times.

So, should I watch Harold and Maude?
 
MendotoManteo said:
I've seen a number of you bring up Harold and Maude. One of yuns even posted a GIF from it.

Excuse my ignorance, but I always just assume it was some weird film about a young dude loving an old woman. There's Something About Mary cites it several times.

So, should I watch Harold and Maude?
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Certainly not your traditional RomCon but it's a quirky, fun movie nonetheless, especially if you appreciate dark humor. Also, as an added bonus, much of the soundtrack is provided by Cat Stevens.
 
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