I would assume it is like Obama’s Dreamer order - with him basically saying he won’t prosecute.
TikTok Ban in USA
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BlooVooDoo
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I wonder if Ken Paxton will fall in line with Trump on this.
superrific
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No, he cannot. Tiktok is now illegal in the United States, per a validly enacted statute that has been found to be in compliance with the constitution.
The only thing Trump can do is promise not to prosecute. But the fines are $5K per day per user, IIRC. At that rate, Oracle would be racking up billions of dollars in fines daily. To continue to service TikTok would essentially bet the entire company on the word of Donald Trump. Would you do that? And it's worse, because you would have to trust Trump's successor also.
Or Congress could pass legislation, which isn't going to happen.
superrific
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The difference, of course, being that the average Dreamer had little to lose; they were in the country, had nowhere to go, and were planning on staying in the country anyway.
Whereas Oracle, Apple, Google, etc. would be facing literally hundreds of billions of dollars in liability.
Here's what Trump cannot do with an executive order: make those charges go away on their corporate balance sheets. It would be criminal level malpractice for any accounting firm to certify financial results without accounting for that liability. It would have to be listed as a deferred liability. Wouldn't that be a fun entry on the old balance sheet: Deferred Liabilities: $500,000,000,000.
Count me skeptical that any tech company is going to take Trump up on the non-prosecution offer.
lawtig02
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I am the furthest thing in the world from an expert on TikTok but does anyone else remember when this first came up and congresspeople on both sides were skeptical we should be banning it. And then the intelligence community held closed door sessions with Congress and the members came out saying we can’t tell you what was discussed but we now all agree TikTok needs to be banned? And then the bill was passed and signed into law? I’m pretty sure I remember that.
The point is I have a strong feeling we don’t really know what national security risks TikTok poses, but they were enough to get this totally dysfunctional Congress all moving in the same direction.
The point is I have a strong feeling we don’t really know what national security risks TikTok poses, but they were enough to get this totally dysfunctional Congress all moving in the same direction.
superrific
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Yes. I grow so weary of dumbass message board posters thinking they understand the national security implications here because they read a fucking article on some web page.
One of the worst things that Rush Limbaugh and right-wing talk radio did was to incessantly validate ignorance as an opinion.
From what I've seen I wouldn't expect to see a ton of movement towards MAGA for saving TikTok. I do expect more disgust with politics and disengagment. With TikTok's user base that's still a win for Republicans.
Mulberry Heel
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I don't know if there will be any movement towards MAGA, but what I am talking about is how it will be portrayed in the national news media and on social media. Having said that, we'll see if it actually happens.
lawtig02
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Again with the disclaimer that I’m no expert on any of this, seems like this could either be a boon for Trump early in his term or a massive embarrassment. I’m not at all sure Congress, including the GOP, will let Trump try to “save” it, as he’s been promising.
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China’s Young People Can’t Find Jobs. Xi Jinping Says to ‘Eat Bitterness.’
With youth unemployment at a record, the Communist Party is trying to reset expectations about social mobility by talking up the virtue of hardship.
China’s Young People Can’t Find Jobs. Xi Jinping Says to ‘Eat Bitterness.’ (Published 2023)
With youth unemployment at a record, the Communist Party is trying to reset expectations about social mobility by talking up the virtue of hardship.
I think you're right there. Trump will try to sell the people who own that media TikTok and they'll call him a champion of freedom in return.
superrific
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The ban is in effect. Trump cannot save it. An executive order on Jan 20 is too late. The statute has no provision to allow him to give any grace period now. If TikTok is purchased, then the ban can be undone but not until the merger is completed.
Note that TikTok being "up" today isn't necessarily meaningful. Here is section 2(c)(1):
(2) EXEMPTIONS FOR CERTAIN NECESSARY SERVICES.—Subsections (a) and (b) do not apply to services provided with respect to a foreign adversary controlled application that are necessary for an entity to attain compliance with such subsections.
Subsections a and b being the ones that fine companies for working with TikTok. And one of those requirements is:
"Before the date on which a prohibition under subsection (a) applies to a foreign adversary controlled application, the entity that owns or controls such application shall provide, upon request by a user of such application within the land or maritime borders of United States, to such user all the available data related to the account of such user with respect to such application. Such data shall be provided in a machine readable format and shall include any data maintained by such application with respect to the account of such user, including content (including posts, photos, and videos) and all other account information."
Now, technically, this requirement only applies before the date, but companies like Apple and Google could probably argue that they are exempt from the fines so long as they are helping with this process.
superrific
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I just read the act again. Not only does it have no provision to permit the president to extend the deadline after the deadline, but it specifically states what type of executive order is required:
"(A) a path to executing a qualified divestiture has been identified with respect to such application;(B) evidence of significant progress toward executing such qualified divestiture has been produced with respectt o such application; and(C) there are in place the relevant binding legal agreements to enable execution of such qualified divestiture during the period of such extension."
None of those criteria have been met. It's not clear under the statute whether any presidential certification of those three points would suffice to trigger the 90 day extension (assuming that it can even be extended, which I doubt), even if clearly false, or if the courts will enforce the statute as written and require the evidence to have actually been produced.
If TikTok keeps operating and is allowed to keep operating, then the rule of law has been damaged even more than it has been already, and again Trump has not even taken office.
"(A) a path to executing a qualified divestiture has been identified with respect to such application;(B) evidence of significant progress toward executing such qualified divestiture has been produced with respectt o such application; and(C) there are in place the relevant binding legal agreements to enable execution of such qualified divestiture during the period of such extension."
None of those criteria have been met. It's not clear under the statute whether any presidential certification of those three points would suffice to trigger the 90 day extension (assuming that it can even be extended, which I doubt), even if clearly false, or if the courts will enforce the statute as written and require the evidence to have actually been produced.
If TikTok keeps operating and is allowed to keep operating, then the rule of law has been damaged even more than it has been already, and again Trump has not even taken office.
superrific
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Note that the JV Trump proposed would not actually save TikTok unless the US had control. And a 50-50 JV is not control in itself. Further, I have my doubts that TikTok -- and China -- would ever be sold to the United States government.
This whole thing SHOULD turn out to be a massive embarrassment for Trump, if the law holds.
This whole thing SHOULD turn out to be a massive embarrassment for Trump, if the law holds.
lawtig02
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I think Trump is intentionally triggering a constitutional crisis on his first day. He’ll issue the EO. Congress will say he had no power to do so. Courts will likely conclude he had no power to do so. Trump will then either (a) ignore the courts completely, or (b) instruct his DOJ and whoever else has power to enforce the fines to simply decline to do so, which will have the effect of nullifying the law.
In other words, I think Trump sees this as an issue in which the optics could favor him (mainly because Americans don’t understand what this ban is all about), and he can use it to achieve a much larger and more important goal (showing his ability to circumvent Congress and the courts whenever he wants).
The more I think about it, the more concerned I’m becoming.