Trump Admin Propaganda

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Ramrouser said:
I realize there are no fundamentalist Christian countries. Doesn't that tell you something? That's why I had to use the state of Arkansas as an example.

Don't think there are many honor killings in Podunk First Baptist Church nor are they likely to require the ladies of the church to wear burkas or risk death. Also, at the Wednesday night Bible meeting, doubt the Baptist young men are planning terrorists attacks for their holy jihad. Oh, and Podunk doesn't throw LGBTQ+ folks off of buildings. They just pray for their souls.
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superrific said:
Fundamentalists in Islam do not generally do those things that you cite.
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I don't know what you're referring to when you say "those things".

superrific said:
They do in some places. If you want to call THAT culture --
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Yes, I think religion is absolutely a part of culture, especially in a fundamentalist, theocratic country.
superrific said:
which is A strand of fundamentalism but not the same thing -- incompatible, I won't disagree. But those types of practices usually fall away quickly in a multicultural environment.
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Again, not sure what you're referring to when you reference "practices".
 
Ramrouser said:
So if fundamentalist Islam = evangelical Christian, would you prefer to live in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia or Iran vs the most conservative Christian state, say for example, Arkansas? There is no fundamentalist Christian country on par with the countries named above. You really can't be serious comparing life and the laws in Arkansas vs the Islamist states?

You guys are grossly inflating the power and influence of evangelical Christians. They're mostly harmless.
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Um, there are several countries in sub-Sahara Africa that would like a word. Like Uganda or Zambia.

The real reason that life is better in Arkansas than Afghanistan is the Bill of Rights. And then, after that, the Civil War. You want fundamentalists to be given credit for the things they have long opposed. Did you know that most of the confederacy didn't ratify the 19th amendment until the 60s and 70s, with Mississippi not ratifying until 1984? Why do you think that is? Why do you think the south had to be forced to teach evolution, and then forced again not to teach creationism in science curricula?

Fortunately America has long been a bastion of religious freedom, and we have been saved from the type of odious theocracy we see in some of these countries. Y'all are trying to undo that, though.

P.S. Pakistan is not a fundamentalist state. Women can walk freely in Islamabad wearing what they want.
 
ZenMode said:
They absolutely are. Fundamentalist Christianity might encourage/require a woman to be primarily a mom/homemaker and to generally submit to the man as the "head of the house", but fundamentalist Christian men don't force their wives to live in burlap sacks and beat them if they dare to go outside without it. Fundamentalist Christian men don't deny females an education and, again, beat them if they dare to educate themselves or learn to read.
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I’d argue that, in some places in the United States, such (or at least comparable) behavior, by fundamentalist Christians, has occurred a lot more recently than some care to admit.
 
sringwal said:
I’d argue that, in some places in the United States, such (or at least comparable) behavior, by fundamentalist Christians, has occurred a lot more recently than some care to admit.
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Sure. I'm sure there are some examples, especially in the deep south, where this kind of thing occasionally happens.
 
ZenMode said:
Ok. Doesn't change anything as it relates to the commonality in fundamentalist Islamic countries.
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I’m not going to argue with you that at this point in time there are Muslim fundamentalist countries that are committing horrible acts. We differ on how to respond to that.

You aim more for cultural isolation. I get it. There is an inherent risk to true diversity, but there is also a potential for a better reward.

Cultural isolation is a short term answer, has been done before, and generally has led to some fucked up shit. The more groups are isolated, the easier it is to breed hate, resentment, fear of the other. That results in a dangerous fundamentalism. It is only by the groups being seen together that we can ever hope to defeat the cycle of division.

And a big way to show that mutual respect to invite people from those countries who no longer feel safe there, especially those who put their lives at risk to support fighting against oppressive governments. That’s how we move closer to peace and prosperity for all.
 
ZenMode said:
Ok. Doesn't change anything as it relates to the commonality in fundamentalist Islamic countries.
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And I am telling you those folks in those areas are every bit as terrifying and would engage in the same activities as Islamic Fundamentalists.
 
Apropo of nothing, but when I was a kid my father sold hog feed in 100 lb bags. Originally these were simple burlap bags. But the manufacturer got the brillant idea to use specially printed fabric that after the feed was poured out could be used to make either table clothes or dresses. When one of the patterns was identical to my mother's favorite picnic table cloth, because we kids were all little shits, we teased our mother about her hog feed table cloth.
 
05C40 said:
Apropo of nothing, but when I was a kid my father sold hog feed in 100 lb bags. Originally these were simple burlap bags. But the manufacturer got the brillant idea to use specially printed fabric that after the feed was poured out could be used to make either table clothes or dresses. When one of the patterns was identical to my mother's favorite picnic table cloth, because we kids were all little shits, we teased our mother about her hog feed table cloth.
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I wore pajamas and shirts made from those and we had a lot of patchwork quilts with feed bags in them. Took a little grief from it but since I combined it with being the only kid to bring their lunch in a brown paper bag, had a horrible speech impediment and was the smartest kid in class, it wasn't a feature.
 
sringwal said:
I’m not going to argue with you that at this point in time there are Muslim fundamentalist countries that are committing horrible acts. We differ on how to respond to that.

You aim more for cultural isolation. I get it. There is an inherent risk to true diversity, but there is also a potential for a better reward.

Cultural isolation is a short term answer, has been done before, and generally has led to some fucked up shit. The more groups are isolated, the easier it is to breed hate, resentment, fear of the other. That results in a dangerous fundamentalism. It is only by the groups being seen together that we can ever hope to defeat the cycle of division.

And a big way to show that mutual respect to invite people from those countries who no longer feel safe there, especially those who put their lives at risk to support fighting against oppressive governments. That’s how we move closer to peace and prosperity for all.
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I don't think the issues with Muslim fundamentalism is going to be solved by white people being nice and inviting to them. That approach may work with other non-prefered cultural behavior, but this is different. This is "eternity". This is the literal belief that you, your wife or kids being swayed from fundamental religious beliefs will result in eternal torture.

This is Christian findamentalsim but worse.

Christianity had its transformation decades ago. Yes, there's some religious violence and extreme beliefs/behavior, but nothing close to Islam and that fundamental transformation, I believe, has to come from inside like it did for Christianity. It has to come from reinterpreting the religious doctrine so as to not take it literally.
 
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