Trump Admin takes over D.C. Policing | Multiple people shot in DC, including two National Guardsman

[ZenMode]

“Don’t pay attention to what these people actually said. The words don’t matter. You should be mad because I think they said something completely different than what was captured on video.”

I'm saying the wording doesn't change what I said.

In principle, of course the military shouldn't follow unconstitutional or illegal orders. How is any individual person going to determine what is legal or unconstitutional? Ask their superior? Ask SCOTUS? Do their own research online?

We drone terrorist leaders, which is apparently ok, but a member of the Air Force should know whether or not he/she can bomb a foreign drug boat?

 

[ZZLPHeels]

I'm saying the wording doesn't change what I said.

In principle, of course the military shouldn't follow unconstitutional or illegal orders. How is any individual person going to determine what is legal or unconstitutional? Ask their superior? Ask SCOTUS? Do their own research online?

We drone terrorist leaders, which is apparently ok, but a member of the Air Force should know whether or not he/she can bomb a foreign drug boat?

Who said anything about boats? If you are a member of the Army, for example, and your commanding officer orders you to shoot a handcuffed American citizen in the head, you are allowed to refuse that order and litigate it later. Reminding people of the law doesn’t mean that those people are currently breaking the law. If you tell your kids, “don’t do drugs”, it doesn’t mean that your kids are currently on drugs. It is just wise advice in case they are in a position in the future in which they are offered illegal narcotics. The fact that Trump and Republicans are outraged about the notion that soldiers don’t have to follow illegal orders is telling on them.

 

[superrific]

1. It is really sad that the response to a shooting like this is "did he come in under Biden or under Trump," as if that matters. Did Biden or Trump review his file individually? Of course not.

2. Trump is pausing all processing for Afghanis because one guy did something wrong. That is literally the definition of racism. Why not stop processing applications for 20-something males? People with multi-syllabic first names? MAGA freaks, imagine if other countries didn't let you enter because that dude shot up the synagogue in Pittsburgh. Just because he was white, and you're white, doesn't mean you and he do the same thing. You'd scream racism until your cows come home -- and rightly you should, in that case. And yet.

3. Once again, we see the math-challenged broadcast their silliness. You can take any set of people and find in it some criminal. The fact that somebody committed a crime proves that . . . a person committed a crime, and nothing more. To determine whether foreigners make the country safer or more dangerous, there is only one way: compare crime rates.

"this guy shouldn't have been here [note: begging the question] so we need to keep them out" is middle ages reasoning. In the 20th century, people figured out the concept of rates. Analysis by anecdote went out with the steam engine.

 

[ZenMode]

Who said anything about boats? If you are a member of the Army, for example, and your commanding officer orders you to shoot a handcuffed American citizen in the head, you are allowed to refuse that order and litigate it later. Reminding people of the law doesn’t mean that those people are currently breaking the law. If you tell your kids, “don’t do drugs”, it doesn’t mean that your kids are currently on drugs. It is just wise advice in case they are in a position in the future in which they are offered illegal narcotics. The fact that Trump and Republicans are outraged about the notion that soldiers don’t have to follow illegal orders is telling on them.

Right, like I said earlier there are obvious situations where a member of the military would know an order shouldn't be followed. The 6 Democrats, while technically correct, were pretty obviously trying to undermine the President with an inflammatory comment to make us believe that the President was already giving illegal/unconstitutional orders.

 

[finesse]

Right, like I said earlier there are obvious situations where a member of the military would know an order shouldn't be followed. The 6 Democrats, while technically correct, were pretty obviously trying to undermine the President with an inflammatory comment to make us believe that the President was already giving illegal/unconstitutional orders.

So what?

 

[wmheel1287]

I'm saying the wording doesn't change what I said.

In principle, of course the military shouldn't follow unconstitutional or illegal orders. How is any individual person going to determine what is legal or unconstitutional? Ask their superior? Ask SCOTUS? Do their own research online?

We drone terrorist leaders, which is apparently ok, but a member of the Air Force should know whether or not he/she can bomb a foreign drug boat?

Since you apparently have no idea of how military units operate, why dont you sit this one out?

 

[Duke Mu]

Trump undermines himself plenty. I would have messaged differently - more of a PSA as Trump nationalizes our military in direct opposition to the nation's founders. The message that the military can't follow illegal orders could have been included in the advertisement, but not personalized it. I would have read off a litany of examples where Trump attempted or used the military inappropriate including posse comitatus.

 

[Duke Mu]

Since you apparently have no idea of how military units operate, why dont you sit this one out?

Yeah - the biggies our military officers will know.

- Killing unarmed civilians, especially women and children.

- Our military (A, N AF, M) pointing weapons at US Citizens without an obvious declared insurrection underway

- Starting wars without Congressional approval or oversight (WoT). Fentanyl is routed from China to Jalisco, MX not Venezuela.

 

[TangledUpInBlue06]

Right, like I said earlier there are obvious situations where a member of the military would know an order shouldn't be followed. The 6 Democrats, while technically correct, were pretty obviously trying to undermine the President with an inflammatory comment to make us believe that the President was already giving illegal/unconstitutional orders.

Yes, if everyone was perfectly comfortable with the legality of the administration's orders, the video wouldn't have been necessary. But everyone is not perfectly comfortable. Including legal scholars. And allies. The UK stopped sharing intelligence with the US about activity in the Caribbean because of concerns about the legality of strikes.

Also, is it really undermining a President to say "don't break the law"? Or to suggest to others not to break the law at his direction? Is it really inflammatory to say "don't break the law"?

 

[SnoopRob]

Yes, if everyone was perfectly comfortable with the legality of the administration's orders, the video wouldn't have been necessary. But everyone is not perfectly comfortable. Including legal scholars. And allies. The UK stopped sharing intelligence with the US about activity in the Caribbean because of concerns about the legality of strikes.

Also, is it really undermining a President to say "don't break the law"? Or to suggest to others not to break the law at his direction? Is it really inflammatory to say "don't break the law"?

Republican response to saying "don't break the law" to the military underscores that they understand how very likely it is or will be that Trump gives unlawful orders to the military.

 

[TangledUpInBlue06]

Republican response to saying "don't break the law" to the military underscores that they understand how very likely it is or will be that Trump gives unlawful orders to the military.

Yeah. The idea that restating the UCMJ and saying "No one has to carry out orders that violate the law or our Constitution" is "obviously trying to undermine the President" speaks volumes about the person holding that idea and the President.

 

[rodoheel]

I also believe that message contributed to what happened yesterday.

Source: trust me bro