Trump Dictatorship

Callatoroy said:
"but because the right wing basically controls the media,"

Maybe the most unaware, ignorant comment ever posted on the old zzl or new zzl. This is the equivalent of radicalized jihadist level of brainwashing (without the violence) and completely ignores all recent instances of leftist media's lies. When you can't even acknowledge the left's grip on the media, outside of fox and a few others, its time for the cult branding.
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It's not just on ZZL, but it is absolutely dependent on your perception.

I'm normally arguing against the Republican view which is that the entirety of the media is run by liberals. My response is (or was during the Biden admin) "The full force of the liberal machine - media, Hollywood, wealthy, etc was squarely against Trump in 2016, but he still won. Explain."
 
Centerpiece said:
CoVid lockdowns were worldwide…being a pandemic and all.
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Do you think the far-right thinks through that kind of detail?

The point is LA wasn't a trial run for anything and those who claim it is are conspiracy theorists.
 
CFordUNC said:
I think you're right, but with an asterisk of sorts. I definitely believe that historically the "mainstream media" (by which I mean outlets like CBS, ABC, NBC, NYT, WaPo, NPR, etc.) has had a significantly more liberal lean than conservative. I think it's for a lot of the same reasons that academia has historically had a more liberal lean than conservative, which is to say, that conservatives have largely eschewed going into the field of journalism altogether. I don't think that there was ever some Illumniati-esque meeting of the media minds where it was decided that mainstream media outlets would lean liberal versus conservative; I think a lot of it was self-selection, as I mentioned. In other words, I don't think that the mainstream media became liberal in the aggregate out of spite for conservatives or for nefarious reasons (to borrow a phrase from Michael Jordan: "conservatives buy newspapers, too"). I think it happened naturally as a result of the self-selection I mentioned, and then continued to perpetuate itself for decades.

Something that I think that conservatives have done, though, as a result of the mainstream media having a liberal bend, is absolutely kick the left's ass when it comes to creating and sustaining an entire media ecosystem dedicated to propping up the conservative party. CNN and MSNBC are child's play, IMO, compared to Fox- and by that I mean their reach and influence. (That's not to say that they aren't liberal-biased; they are. I just mean that they aren't nearly as effective at message-shaping and agenda-setting as is Fox).

So while the mainstream media is definitely liberal-biased, the right wing media ecosystem that started with Fox and has since spawned off countless podcasters, social media personalities, influencers, etc. is extraordinarily more successful at crafting and disseminating unified messaging that benefits the conservative party, than the mainstream media is at doing the same for the liberal party. I absolutely hate most of the right wing media ecosystem for its propensity for lying and grifting, but I am both envious and in awe of its effectiveness. It's something for which the left has had no match historically, currently has no match, and will likely never have a match- to the detriment of the Democratic Party. So while the historic norm has been that the mainstream media has been significantly biased in favor of liberals, I think that their effectiveness in crafting and disseminating messaging that favors the Democrats is at an all-time low compared to that of Fox & Co. And I think it's going to continue to cost Democrats dearly at election time.
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Perfectly put. I’d add one thing. The mainstream media is just what it is- they compete with one another but do not collaborate to create a uniform “liberal” message like the right-wing media ecosystem does. That world marches in lock-step and is a united mouth piece for whatever agenda the right wing politicians (now Trump) want to push. It’s essentially state media whether in or out of power.
 
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Kingpin said:
Perfectly put. I’d add one thing. The mainstream media is just what it is- they compete with one another but do not collaborate to create a uniform “liberal” message like the right-wing media ecosystem does. That world marches in lock-step and is a united mouth peace for whatever agenda the right wing politicians (now Trump) want to push. It’s essentially state media whether in or out of power.
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Add in that the right-wing media LIES.

When ABC, CBS, NBC, WAPO, CNN, MSNBC, NPR, PBS, and others make mistakes, they mention their errors. I’d include the NYTimes but they’ve never acknowledged their errors on helping to promote invading Iraq in 2003.

Fox had to lose a major lawsuit ($800 million) for it to acknowledge it was lying about the 2020 election.
 
ZenMode said:
It's not just on ZZL, but it is absolutely dependent on your perception.

I'm normally arguing against the Republican view which is that the entirety of the media is run by liberals. My response is (or was during the Biden admin) "The full force of the liberal machine - media, Hollywood, wealthy, etc was squarely against Trump in 2016, but he still won. Explain."
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The same one that explains every day for you. You're delusional.
 
ZenMode said:
For what future plans do you believe LA was a trial run and what is your level of certainty that it will happen? 60%? 80%?
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You really can’t question the accuracy of the left’s pre-election predictions of a trump presidency. 0% is pretty impressive.
 
Zoo_View said:
Add in that the right-wing media LIES.

When ABC, CBS, NBC, WAPO, CNN, MSNBC, NPR, PBS, and others make mistakes, they mention their errors. I’d include the NYTimes but they’ve never acknowledged their errors on helping to promote invading Iraq in 2003.

Fox had to lose a major lawsuit ($800 million) for it to acknowledge it was lying about the 2020 election.
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I could be wrong, but I don't think Fox, as a corporation, ever made an official statement about the election. They basically just acknowledge that Tucker was lying about Dominion voting machines.
 
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ZenMode said:
It's not just on ZZL, but it is absolutely dependent on your perception.

I'm normally arguing against the Republican view which is that the entirety of the media is run by liberals. My response is (or was during the Biden admin) "The full force of the liberal machine - media, Hollywood, wealthy, etc was squarely against Trump in 2016, but he still won. Explain."
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Because the full force of the republican machine was squarely for Trump.
 
Callatoroy said:
You really can’t question the accuracy of the left’s pre-election predictions of a trump presidency. 0% is pretty impressive.
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Deployed the military against Americans ✅️
Concentration camps ✅️
Tariffs causing inflation ✅️
trump policies hurting economic growth ✅️
 
BillOfRights said:
Deployed the military against Americans ✅
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Or deployed the military to protect federal buildings from rioters (American and otherwise) in CA
BillOfRights said:
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Concentration camps ✅
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Illegals are generally detained when coming into the country and when being removed from the country. This is normal.
BillOfRights said:
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Tariffs causing inflation ✅
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So far, not really. I expect that to change at some point.
BillOfRights said:
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trump policies hurting economic growth ✅️
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Maybe. Maybe not. The fed needs to lower rates since their rate increases are contributing to the economic slow down.
 
CFordUNC said:
I think you're right, but with an asterisk of sorts. I definitely believe that historically the "mainstream media" (by which I mean outlets like CBS, ABC, NBC, NYT, WaPo, NPR, etc.) has had a significantly more liberal lean than conservative. I think it's for a lot of the same reasons that academia has historically had a more liberal lean than conservative, which is to say, that conservatives have largely eschewed going into the field of journalism altogether. I don't think that there was ever some Illumniati-esque meeting of the media minds where it was decided that mainstream media outlets would lean liberal versus conservative; I think a lot of it was self-selection, as I mentioned. In other words, I don't think that the mainstream media became liberal in the aggregate out of spite for conservatives or for nefarious reasons (to borrow a phrase from Michael Jordan: "conservatives buy newspapers, too"). I think it happened naturally as a result of the self-selection I mentioned, and then continued to perpetuate itself for decades.

Something that I think that conservatives have done, though, as a result of the mainstream media having a liberal bend, is absolutely kick the left's ass when it comes to creating and sustaining an entire media ecosystem dedicated to propping up the conservative party. CNN and MSNBC are child's play, IMO, compared to Fox- and by that I mean their reach and influence. (That's not to say that they aren't liberal-biased; they are. I just mean that they aren't nearly as effective at message-shaping and agenda-setting as is Fox).

So while the mainstream media is definitely liberal-biased, the right wing media ecosystem that started with Fox and has since spawned off countless podcasters, social media personalities, influencers, etc. is extraordinarily more successful at crafting and disseminating unified messaging that benefits the conservative party, than the mainstream media is at doing the same for the liberal party. I absolutely hate most of the right wing media ecosystem for its propensity for lying and grifting, but I am both envious and in awe of its effectiveness. It's something for which the left has had no match historically, currently has no match, and will likely never have a match- to the detriment of the Democratic Party. So while the historic norm has been that the mainstream media has been significantly biased in favor of liberals, I think that their effectiveness in crafting and disseminating messaging that favors the Democrats is at an all-time low compared to that of Fox & Co. And I think it's going to continue to cost Democrats dearly at election time.
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That is because they see their role as journalism not propaganda. Whether or not they have a bias, it isn’t concerted effort to mislead and manipulate the viewers.

Maybe there are equivalents of the right wing propaganda networks for the left but people on the left prefer real journalism.

Btw, I think one reason people on the left claim the MSM is right leaning is because the MSM use kitten gloves when dealing with Trump as if they are scared of him, and I think they are. We all know Trump lies constantly - big lies, small lies, obvious lies. I have yet to hear the word “lie” on NPR or ABC, etc.
 
One reason I think that Trump may attempt to remain in power (maybe via a “legal” way like having a figurehead similar to what Putin did) is that I think one of the things that drive him is his desire to surpass Obama, and that goes back to the incident where Obama embarrassed Trump at the correspondents dinner. (And Obama rightly did it because it was all about Trump’s pushing of the birth certificate issue.)

That is why Trump needs the Nobel prize. That is one reason he couldn’t and still can’t accept the results of the 2020 election. The only way Trump can make up for that loss and his inability to get a Nobel prize is for him to effectively serve a third term, something Obama did not do.

Just my thoughts. I could be wrong but we will see.
 
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