Trump goes bananas over Dem message to military re: illegal orders

rodoheel said:
Yes. Lots of stuff feels bad, and is bad, right now, but the country has certainly survived worse. Like, you know, that time where we shot each other to pieces for four years.
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When you have to point to the Civil War to show when America was in a worse place, I think you're making the point of how very, very, very bad it is.
 
SnoopRob said:
When you have to point to the Civil War to show when America was in a worse place, I think you're making the point of how very, very, very bad it is.
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I'm not trying to minimize how bad it is. I'm trying to dispute the idea that there is any realistic chance of the country falling apart in the next three years. We can talk about how bad it is without engaging in unnecessary doomerism.

But to be clear, the Civil War was just an example. Other bad times in the country's history that were bad, and arguably as bad or worse as the current time, would include the War of 1812 and the economic troubles that followed, culminating in the Panic of 1819 and the near collapse of the US economy; the mid 1870s that included a major, long-lasting depression and the "Corrupt Bargain" that resolved the 1876 election and basically sacrificed the rights and political participation of southern blacks as Reconstruction was forcefully, and sometimes violently, rolled back and Jim Crow laws began to be implemented; the stock market crash of 1929 and the Great Depression that followed; the late 1950s through the 1980s marked by the Red Scare; violent Civil Rights clashes across the country, and the start of the Vietnam War; and the mid 1970s with the OPEC oil crisis, stagflation, and the Watergate political scandal.
 
nycfan said:


“sitting member of the United States Congress … conspired together to orchestrate a video message to [military and security apparatus] … encouraging them to defy the President’s lawful orders…”

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Uh, Bullshit Barbie, what about this? ...

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abcnews.go.com

Trump and Hegseth post video of another lethal strike on alleged drug boat

Trump says he ordered another military strike of a boat off the coast of Venezuela in what appears to be the fifth such strike in the Caribbean Sea, killing six people.
abcnews.go.com abcnews.go.com
 
rodoheel said:
I'm not trying to minimize how bad it is. I'm trying to dispute the idea that there is any realistic chance of the country falling apart in the next three years. We can talk about how bad it is without engaging in unnecessary doomerism.

But to be clear, the Civil War was just an example. Other bad times in the country's history that were bad, and arguably as bad or worse as the current time, would include the War of 1812 and the economic troubles that followed, culminating in the Panic of 1819 and the near collapse of the US economy; the mid 1870s that included a major, long-lasting depression and the "Corrupt Bargain" that resolved the 1876 election and basically sacrificed the rights and political participation of southern blacks as Reconstruction was forcefully, and sometimes violently, rolled back and Jim Crow laws began to be implemented; the stock market crash of 1929 and the Great Depression that followed; the late 1950s through the 1980s marked by the Red Scare; violent Civil Rights clashes across the country, and the start of the Vietnam War; and the mid 1970s with the OPEC oil crisis, stagflation, and the Watergate political scandal.
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I would argue that we're in the worst position, as a nation, that we've been since, and outside of, the US Civil War & Reconstruction.

There have obviously been other tough and terrible times, but we seem again at the precipice of the country tearing apart, including the possibility of armed conflict. (In fact, I think you can make a great argument that a major input into our current issues is that we never definitively settled the Civil War, but that's only somewhat related to how bad things are in our current time.)
 
BlueSteel said:
It must be so hard having to defend the WORST PRESIDENT OF ALL TIME every day of your life as a full-time job. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
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She’s likely paid well. She’ll have a book deal and a Fox News (or WAPO or NY Times, NBC, CNN, CBS [co-host on 60 Minutes?], ABC, etc. paying her well into high 6-figures).

She likely loves her job.
 
SnoopRob said:
I would argue that we're in the worst position, as a nation, that we've been since, and outside of, the US Civil War & Reconstruction.

There have obviously been other tough and terrible times, but we seem again at the precipice of the country tearing apart, including the possibility of armed conflict. (In fact, I think you can make a great argument that a major input into our current issues is that we never definitively settled the Civil War, but that's only somewhat related to how bad things are in our current time.)
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I appreciate that position, but respectfully think we're further away from "armed conflict" on anything approaching a widespread scale than this post implies. I don't want to discount that very real and scary possibility. I do think it remains highly unlikely, for a variety of reasons. I think it's important to talk about the threat being real while also not exaggerating either (1) how close we are to that, or (2) how likely it is to happen at all.

I also think we suffer from the natural bias of living in the moment. It is easier to look back at past times with historical context, when we can know "what comes next" which is a virtue we don't have in the present. The future seems scary because we have no idea what it holds. It's easy to look back at, say, 1930 or 1968 and think it wasn't that bad because we knew what was coming later. But I'm confident the people living in those and other moments in our nation's history were every bit as terrified for their future, and the future of the nation, than we are right now. So I think it's important to keep that context in mind; and never give in to the nihilistic impulse to think that the country is doomed, or we're past the point that anything can be done to save our democracy. (not saying you're saying that, to be clear, but I have heard people on the board say it.) Because part of the way we pull through the darkness is to continue to have faith that there can be a better future on the other side.
 
BlueSteel said:
It must be so hard having to defend the WORST PRESIDENT OF ALL TIME every day of your life as a full-time job. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
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She doesn't have to do any of it. She's an intelligent woman of means who has options and agency, not a hostage. She's woken up every day and chosen to do this, and she'll wake up tomorrow and choose it again. Same boat as Melania. They've not just seen how this sausage is made, they've decided to help make it.
 
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