Trump still hasn't figured out tariffs are a tax on consumers | Trump announces “External Revenue Service”

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Mulberry Heel said:
Not to mention that Gilded Age business tycoons often treated their workers like shit because there were no legal restraints on them not to do so, and so many workers tried to organize labor unions to strike for better pay, working conditions, etc. And many of these strikes were violently opposed by the company owners and aided by the state and federal governments. Hundreds of workers were killed in violent strikes in that era - The National Railroad Strike of 1877, the Chicago Haymarket Square Riot, the Pullman Strike, the Homestead Strike, and so on. Ugly stuff, and it certainly wasn't a paradise for many, or even most, workers.

Also, instead of the capitalist idea of corporate competition, many companies formed monopolies which allowed for crappy products and high prices - farmers were routinely the victims of price gouging by railroad companies to move their products to market, for example. It may have been great for the wealthiest upper class, but it sure as hell wasn't all that great for the working class. But of course as we all know that's not who Trump is talking about - he's talking about himself and his buddies like Elon and that LA Times owner.
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The Gilded Age was the RNC’s yearning for decades. Then in 2016 God sent them a loudmouthed charlatan who delivered and promises more. The “God sent” are trump’s words… he has convinced himself.
 
UNCatTech said:
Hmmm, didn't the tariffs during his first administration impact the farmers?

This seems like another area where we really need to look for more balance, we need food producers, we should pay enough for them to stay in business and live. Of course, I believe we may also need to consider the actual crops. Why do we grow so many acres of these low-cost grain crops?
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Why grow grain? BIG demand, easier to grow, heap big profit on large scale planting.
 
tarheelbillie said:
Why grow grain? BIG demand, easier to grow, heap big profit on large scale planting.
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True, but from what I've read we over produce at the loss of other, possible better crops. Isn't a lot of the grain used in the processed foods that are impacting health and disproportionately impact poorer people?
 
UNCatTech said:
True, but from what I've read we over produce at the loss of other, possible better crops. Isn't a lot of the grain used in the processed foods that are impacting health and disproportionately impact poorer people?
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  • 36% of corn is used to feed animals
  • 30% of corn goes into ethanol
  • Something like 2-3% of corn goes directly to human consumption
  • 70% or so of soybeans are animal feed
  • 15% goes into making cooking or salad oil
 
Zoo_View said:
  • 36% of corn is used to feed animals
  • 30% of corn goes into ethanol
  • Something like 2-3% of corn goes directly to human consumption
  • 70% or so of soybeans are animal feed
  • 15% goes into making cooking or salad oil
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We could probably do without ethanol.
 
Marc Andreesen should know better than that. what a bunch of fucking assholes trump has got surrounding him.

Also, the idea that the most fertile era for technology development was 1870-1914 is a very, very weird thing for a venture capitalist to say. Also, most of the great inventions of that period occurred in Europe. America didn't claim the mantle of innovation until after WWII.

All of the following were created or invented in Europe: internal combustion engine, Bessemer process, pneumatic tire, the theory of relativity, quantum mechanics, most things related to electricity (Faraday, Maxwell, modern power plants, transmission of alternating current), fertilizers, steam turbines, etc.

America can claim credit for the airplane (though not really in that timeframe -- air travel was not widely accessible until much later), the telephone (mostly), the light bulb. Probably more than I'm not thinking of right now, but the point is that most of the technology development in that time took place in Europe.
 
CRHeel94 said:
Just no grasp of economic history. Back at that time the US was trying to catch up with other world powers. If you are the world's largest economy, you want unbridled access to foreign markets. As soon as you slap tariffs, other countries will respond in kind.
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Also, the pre-16th Amendment federal government was much, much, much smaller.

We didn't have much of a standing military, and we invested like nothing in weapons system. There was no social security, or Medicare, or Medicaid. There was no FCC because there was no C to speak of. There was no FTC either. Or EPA. There were no federal roads to maintain.
 
nycfan said:
Let The Year of Magical Thinking commence in earnest.
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Hmm. At least he mentioned no tax on tips. That's one of the most moronic policies ever and I assume that it will not go anywhere in the end, but at least he remembered the little guys for a minute or two.

I'm curious to see how much the GOP embraces this Magical Thinking. Unlike Trump, they all have to run for office again, and it will be hazardous for them if they cause massive inflation (from out of control government debt in addition to the other shit). Blind partisan allegiance and belief in conspiracy only goes so far.
 

Trump aides ready ‘universal’ tariff plans — with one key change​

President-elect’s aides look at universal import duties, but only on certain sectors, among first big moves of presidency.

"... If implemented, the emerging plans would pare back the most sweeping elements of Trump’s campaign plans but still would be likely to upend global trade and carry major consequences for the U.S. economy and consumers.

As a candidate, Trump called for “universal” tariffs of as high as 10 or 20 percent on everything imported into the United States. Many economists warned that such plans could cause price shocks, and many Republicans in Congress might have criticized them.

Two weeks before Trump takes office, his aides are still discussing plans to impose import duties on goods from every country, the people said. But rather than apply tariffs to all imports, the current discussions center on imposing them only on certain sectors deemed critical to national or economic security — a shift that would jettison a key aspect of Trump’s campaign pledge, at least for now, said the people, who cautioned that no decisions have been finalized and that planning remains in flux. The people spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe private conversations.

...The potential change reflects a recognition that Trump’s initial plans — which would have been immediately noticeable in the price of food imports and cheap consumer electronics — could prove politically unpopular and disruptive.

But consideration of universal tariffs of some kind still reflects the Trump team’s determination to implement measures that can’t be easily circumvented by having products shipped via a third country.

Exactly which imports or industries would face tariffs was not immediately clear. Preliminary discussions have largely focused on several key sectors that the Trump team wants to bring back to the United States, the people said. Those include the defense industrial supply chain (through tariffs on steel, iron, aluminum and copper); critical medical supplies (syringes, needles, vials and pharmaceutical materials); and energy production (batteries, rare earth minerals and even solar panels), two of the people said.

It’s also unclear how these plans intersect with Trump’s stated intent to impose 25 percent tariffs on Mexico and Canada and an additional 10 percent tariff on China unless they take measures to reduce migration and drug trafficking. Many business leaders view those measures as unlikely to ever take effect, but some people familiar with the matter said they could be imposed along with universal tariffs on key sectors. ..."

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Farm/food sector seems noticeably absent from this universal tariff plan ...
 
I'd break out the popcorn if this weren't so fucking terrifying.
Retaliatory tariffs and boycotts on American goods...thats what comes on this path.
 
CRHeel94 said:
I'd break out the popcorn if this weren't so fucking terrifying.
Retaliatory tariffs and boycotts on American goods...thats what comes on this path.
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Oh, I'm in full popcorn mode. It will be painful for all of us, but I'm fine with that if it teaches anyone a lesson. What will be frustrating is all the conservatives blaming Biden when their 2026 RAV-4s and iPhones are 40% more expensive than the ones they can buy now.
 
superrific said:
Also, the pre-16th Amendment federal government was much, much, much smaller.

We didn't have much of a standing military, and we invested like nothing in weapons system. There was no social security, or Medicare, or Medicaid. There was no FCC because there was no C to speak of. There was no FTC either. Or EPA. There were no federal roads to maintain.
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Yes, and that's exactly what the Trumper GOP wants to go back to. Or at least their wealthy leaders do. Doing so would be an economic and humanitarian disaster of epic proportions, just for starters, but as they're wealthy and would likely benefit from even more tax breaks they probably don't give a shit. Much of Trump's base would be devastated, but as anyone outside his cult knows already neither Trump nor Musk or nor anyone at the top of the GOP food chain cares about his base other than to get their votes every two to four years.
 
nycfan said:

Trump aides ready ‘universal’ tariff plans — with one key change​

President-elect’s aides look at universal import duties, but only on certain sectors, among first big moves of presidency.

"... If implemented, the emerging plans would pare back the most sweeping elements of Trump’s campaign plans but still would be likely to upend global trade and carry major consequences for the U.S. economy and consumers.

As a candidate, Trump called for “universal” tariffs of as high as 10 or 20 percent on everything imported into the United States. Many economists warned that such plans could cause price shocks, and many Republicans in Congress might have criticized them.

Two weeks before Trump takes office, his aides are still discussing plans to impose import duties on goods from every country, the people said. But rather than apply tariffs to all imports, the current discussions center on imposing them only on certain sectors deemed critical to national or economic security — a shift that would jettison a key aspect of Trump’s campaign pledge, at least for now, said the people, who cautioned that no decisions have been finalized and that planning remains in flux. The people spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe private conversations.

...The potential change reflects a recognition that Trump’s initial plans — which would have been immediately noticeable in the price of food imports and cheap consumer electronics — could prove politically unpopular and disruptive.

But consideration of universal tariffs of some kind still reflects the Trump team’s determination to implement measures that can’t be easily circumvented by having products shipped via a third country.

Exactly which imports or industries would face tariffs was not immediately clear. Preliminary discussions have largely focused on several key sectors that the Trump team wants to bring back to the United States, the people said. Those include the defense industrial supply chain (through tariffs on steel, iron, aluminum and copper); critical medical supplies (syringes, needles, vials and pharmaceutical materials); and energy production (batteries, rare earth minerals and even solar panels), two of the people said.

It’s also unclear how these plans intersect with Trump’s stated intent to impose 25 percent tariffs on Mexico and Canada and an additional 10 percent tariff on China unless they take measures to reduce migration and drug trafficking. Many business leaders view those measures as unlikely to ever take effect, but some people familiar with the matter said they could be imposed along with universal tariffs on key sectors. ..."

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Farm/food sector seems noticeably absent from this universal tariff plan ...
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Trump aides are doing what? I thought this was just a negotiation tactic?
 
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