Trump v Elon: Will their battles become legend?

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rodoheel said:
I don't discount how dangerous Musk is, to the entire world. What you shouldn't discount is the immense amount of domestic political power Trump wields, plus the immense amount of actual power he currently wields by commanding the US government and military.
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nycfan said:

White House security staff warned Musk’s Starlink is a security risk​

Starlink satellite connections in the White House bypass controls meant to stop leaks and hacking.


“…. It could not be verified whether the rooftop terminal remains installed or if anything would change now that Musk has receded from the government. A “Starlink Guest” WiFi network appeared on White House phones in February, prompting users only for a password, not a username or a second form of authentication,according to the people. That WiFi network was still appearing on White House visitors’ phones this week.

…Traditionally at the White House, personal phones on guest WiFi networks need names and passwords that are tracked and expire after a week, the people said. Work computers are locked down with security programs and staffers’ interactions with the outside world are “very thoroughly tracked,” with the device identifiers and times of all transmissions recorded, said one of the people, who left the government after the Starlink installation.

“Starlink doesn’t require anything. It allows you to transmit data without any kind of record or tracking,” this person told The Post. “White House IT systems had very strong controls on network access. You had to be on a full-tunnel VPN at all times. If you are not on the VPN, White House-issued devices can’t connect to the outside.”…”
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This Is what I mean when I say that Trump may not come out as cleanly on this one as he has with other feuds.
 
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Paine said:
In a very narrow way, I get the instinct to treat Musk as a temporary ally, but that is faulty logic. Musk is not just rich, he is the face of the oligarchy we are supposed to be fighting. He built his empire on public money and worker exploitation, attacks unions and public transit, and now uses his platform to boost white nationalists and undermine democracy.

He does not want to take down the Big Beautiful Bill for the same reasons we do. He wants fewer limits on his power.

Aligning with Musk, even tactically, muddies the message. If Democrats want to build a winning coalition, they have to be the anti-oligarch party. You cannot take on corporate power while cozying up to one of its worst offenders. Musk is the system Dems need to be fighting.
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We can only hope that this leads to mutual destruction.

There is no good guy here.

Eff em both to hell.
 
Paine said:
In a very narrow way, I get the instinct to treat Musk as a temporary ally, but that is faulty logic. Musk is not just rich, he is the face of the oligarchy we are supposed to be fighting. He built his empire on public money and worker exploitation, attacks unions and public transit, and now uses his platform to boost white nationalists and undermine democracy.

He does not want to take down the Big Beautiful Bill for the same reasons we do. He wants fewer limits on his power.

Aligning with Musk, even tactically, muddies the message. If Democrats want to build a winning coalition, they have to be the anti-oligarch party. You cannot take on corporate power while cozying up to one of its worst offenders. Musk is the system Dems need to be fighting.
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There's a difference, I think, between now and, say, 2028. We are trying to resist without having any real way of doing so; Musk can help us in the narrow short term if he's up for it.

But we don't want him on our campaign ads. Or our administrations.
 
Elon may be out of DC, but all of his DOGE minions are indelibly inked in and submerged into all of the Federal Government systems. These minions were not vetted or elected or even appointed by Trump, his administration or by Congress. So to whom are all of these minions beholden? Trump? The USofA? To what oath of office did any of them swear - one hand on bible, the other raised?

Who do they have as #1 on speed dial on their DOGE issued smart phones? If push comes to shove, and Elon wants to unleash his minions and have them direct their efforts towards making miserable the lives of all those in the White House - how can that be good for Trumpenstein?
 
Centerpiece said:
Elon may be out of DC, but all of his DOGE minions are indelibly inked in and submerged into all of the Federal Government systems. These minions were not vetted or elected or even appointed by Trump, his administration or by Congress. So to whom are all of these minions beholden? Trump? The USofA? To what oath of office did any of them swear - one hand on bible, the other raised?

Who do they have as #1 on speed dial on their DOGE issued smart phones? If push comes to shove, and Elon wants to unleash his minions and have them direct their efforts towards making miserable the lives of all those in the White House - how can that be good for Trumpenstein?
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Musk created his own deep state.
 
Icky Mettle said:
Or they would try to justify it.
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"Well, back in my grandparent's and great-grandparent's day lots of 16-year-old girls married older men. Why, my grandma was just 14 when she started dating my grandpa who was, oh I dunno, somewhere around 30 I guess. So if Dear Leader was having sex with 16 year olds on Epstein's plane that's virtually the same thing, I guess." With Trump, there really is an excuse for everything.
 
I know there is literally no end to Trump’s brazen corruption and Elon may be the least sympathetic person in the country, but why is nobody talking about Trump threatening to use the power of the federal government to force Elon and his companies to “face the consequences” if he donates money to Democrats? Is he trying to see how many ethical breaches he can include in one statement?
 
lawtig02 said:
I know there is literally no end to Trump’s brazen corruption and Elon may be the least sympathetic person in the country, but why is nobody talking about Trump threatening to use the power of the federal government to force Elon and his companies to “face the consequences” if he donates money to Democrats? Is he trying to see how many ethical breaches he can include in one statement?
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Because he's not being held accountable for any of the other times yet.
 
lawtig02 said:
I know there is literally no end to Trump’s brazen corruption and Elon may be the least sympathetic person in the country, but why is nobody talking about Trump threatening to use the power of the federal government to force Elon and his companies to “face the consequences” if he donates money to Democrats? Is he trying to see how many ethical breaches he can include in one statement?
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Gonna be funny when Elon’s Nazi stuff is all of sudden “antisemitism”
 
lawtig02 said:
I know there is literally no end to Trump’s brazen corruption and Elon may be the least sympathetic person in the country, but why is nobody talking about Trump threatening to use the power of the federal government to force Elon and his companies to “face the consequences” if he donates money to Democrats? Is he trying to see how many ethical breaches he can include in one statement?
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Because all the ethical folks already hate Trump and Trump's base doesn't give a rip.

I mean, if ethical concerns could have derailed Trump, we'd be looking back at the administration of President Hillary right now.
 
Paine said:
Short-term tactical alignment is one thing but even that carries risk. As I said, Musk muddies the waters. To beat Trump and the right, Democrats need to be the anti-oligarch party. That means drawing clear lines, not blurring them for a few bucks. Letting billionaires bankroll opposition while pretending they're not part of the rot just confuses the public and dilutes the message.
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I don’t remotely see him as an ally. I view him as a distraction. It’s like if Russia and China escalated cyber warfare against each other. As long as their primary focus is on taking each other down, they are (at least hopefully) focused less on fucking up the rest of the world.
 
Paine said:
In a very narrow way, I get the instinct to treat Musk as a temporary ally, but that is faulty logic. Musk is not just rich, he is the face of the oligarchy we are supposed to be fighting. He built his empire on public money and worker exploitation, attacks unions and public transit, and now uses his platform to boost white nationalists and undermine democracy.

He does not want to take down the Big Beautiful Bill for the same reasons we do. He wants fewer limits on his power.

Aligning with Musk, even tactically, muddies the message. If Democrats want to build a winning coalition, they have to be the anti-oligarch party. You cannot take on corporate power while cozying up to one of its worst offenders. Musk is the system Dems need to be fighting.
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Any politician who aligns with Musk in any way (even strategically) is one id bust my ass to defeat. You and I agree on that.
 
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finesse said:
Has anyone disrespected or made the office of president more disrespectable than Trump?

Don't bother. It was rhetorical.
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For generations Americans expected presidents to, if nothing else, at least display dignity, class, and good citizenship in public and to not be petty but to bring the country together. Nixon was the first who really started to degrade that notion, but Trump has simply destroyed it. He's turned the office of POTUS into a vulgar, crass reality show that plays to the lowest common denominator and he displays the complete opposite of good citizenship in every way - he's incredibly petty and vindictive and goes out of his way to divide the country at every possible opportunity, even on holidays and tragedies. The office is a bad joke now. And it's very unlikely that the office will ever recover the respect and dignity that it used to have, at least not in my lifetime.
 
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