TV Streaming series to talk about.

The finale of Dope Thief was good. I am glad it was a limited 8 episode series... Solid show. Didn't need to be a multi season thing
 
Rewatching The Godfather of Harlem S1-3 before I start the 4th season. Fucking brilliant show.

Also watching MobLand with Tom Hardy it's similar to Gangs of London (if y'all watched that) but better. Both are worth the watch
 
NOVAHEEL13 said:
Rewatching The Godfather of Harlem S1-3 before I start the 4th season. Fucking brilliant show.

Also watching MobLand with Tom Hardy it's similar to Gangs of London (if y'all watched that) but better. Both are worth the watch
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Better than Gangs of London? Wow. Gangs of London was one of my favorite shows of the last few years. Brilliant action sequences.
 
WaynetheDrain said:
I think it’s the best Star Wars vehicle since the original trilogy. No joke.
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It's better than that - it's the best media in the franchise this side of 1980 - but even that doesn't do it justice. It's not really Star Wars...more like a modern SciFi Spy thriller. Season 2 may be even better than Season 1. I'm on the 4th episode.
 
WaynetheDrain said:
I think it’s the best Star Wars vehicle since the original trilogy. No joke.
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I am very reluctant to endorse this type of television. What big IP like Star Wars, MCU, Batman, and the like are trying to do is to change how we think about genre.

Consider how the various iterations of Batman play across different market segments and in different genres: exclude the comics and just think about the grim Nolan films, the silly Teen Titans Go! cartoons, the silly Lego Batman, more 'serious' Batman cartoons for young adults and adolescents, etc. WB would have us believe that there's a Batman for every taste and in every genre.

The important difference, though, is that genre is public. No one owns the romantic comedy, the action film, the mystery thriller. But the dispersion of Batman or Lego or Star Wars or whatever across different genres would have us think that we must yoke together genre with conglomerate-controlled IP. It's just another way to monopolize culture.

Put another way, the owners of IP want us to conclude that Batman and Star Wars and the Avengers are the necessarily vehicles for telling any and every type of story.
 
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breepf said:
I am very reluctant to endorse this type of television. What big IP like Star Wars, MCU, Batman, and the like are trying to do is to change how we think about genre.

Consider how the various iterations of Batman play across different market segments and in different genres: exclude the comics and just think about the grim Nolan films, the silly Teen Titans Go! cartoons, the silly Lego Batman, more 'serious' Batman cartoons for young adults and adolescents, etc. WB would have us believe that there's a Batman for every taste and in every genre.

The important difference, though, is that genre is public. No one owns the romantic comedy, the action film, the mystery thriller. But the dispersion of Batman or Lego or Star Wars or whatever across different genres would have us think that we must yoke together genre with conglomerate-controlled IP. It's just another way to monopolize culture.

Put another way, the owners of IP want us to conclude that Batman and Star Wars and the Avengers are the necessarily vehicles for telling any and every type of story.
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Vine Ok GIF
 
I like Andor but I can’t seem to get any momentum with it. I’ll watch one or two and then forget about it for months. Still haven’t finished season 1 but I’ve made it further than I have with any of the other offshoot series.

Rogue One is the best thing outside the original trilogy for me, so I’m enjoying how Andor is leading into that.
 
p5mmr9 said:
It's better than that - it's the best media in the franchise this side of 1980 - but even that doesn't do it justice. It's not really Star Wars...more like a modern SciFi Spy thriller. Season 2 may be even better than Season 1. I'm on the 4th episode.
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I saw the first episode last week and thought it had promise, but didn’t think that pilot lived up to the heady reviews I’ve read since season 2 premiered. But I loved Rogue One, and liked an interview I read with the lead writer on the show, so intend to keep watching. My husband was disappointed in the pilot though, so will take some effort to get him to watch. Always a battle to get him warmed up to a show. Left to his own devices, he would probably almost never watch scripted television or movies.
 
nycfan said:
I saw the first episode last week and thought it had promise, but didn’t think that pilot lived up to the heady reviews I’ve read since season 2 premiered. But I loved Rogue One, and liked an interview I read with the lead writer on the show, so intend to keep watching. My husband was disappointed in the pilot though, so will take some effort to get him to watch. Always a battle to get him warmed up to a show. Left to his own devices, he would probably almost never watch scripted television or movies.
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As with many shows— and particularly this one— the pilot is not indicative of the quality of the series. Also, don’t expect this to be like Rogue One. Rogue One has that campy (in a good way) Star Wars feel to it. Andor does not.

It probably took me about 4 episodes to start to get it. I initially thought I was supposed to view it through the same lens I view Star Wars movies/series. After several episodes, I realized I needed to completely discard those preconceptions and view it as a spy thriller that just happens to exist in the galaxy where the events of Star Wars take place.
 
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Gilroy cycles the story through 3 episode chapters. Get back with us once you've finished episode 3.
 
nycfan said:
I saw the first episode last week and thought it had promise, but didn’t think that pilot lived up to the heady reviews I’ve read since season 2 premiered. But I loved Rogue One, and liked an interview I read with the lead writer on the show, so intend to keep watching. My husband was disappointed in the pilot though, so will take some effort to get him to watch. Always a battle to get him warmed up to a show. Left to his own devices, he would probably almost never watch scripted television or movies.
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Did you watch season 1 in full?
 
breepf said:
I am very reluctant to endorse this type of television. What big IP like Star Wars, MCU, Batman, and the like are trying to do is to change how we think about genre.

Consider how the various iterations of Batman play across different market segments and in different genres: exclude the comics and just think about the grim Nolan films, the silly Teen Titans Go! cartoons, the silly Lego Batman, more 'serious' Batman cartoons for young adults and adolescents, etc. WB would have us believe that there's a Batman for every taste and in every genre.

The important difference, though, is that genre is public. No one owns the romantic comedy, the action film, the mystery thriller. But the dispersion of Batman or Lego or Star Wars or whatever across different genres would have us think that we must yoke together genre with conglomerate-controlled IP. It's just another way to monopolize culture.

Put another way, the owners of IP want us to conclude that Batman and Star Wars and the Avengers are the necessarily vehicles for telling any and every type of story.
Click to expand...
So, I get this perspective. I also disagree. IP's often get criticized for being formulaic and, to an extent, they are. Part of Marvel's success, for a long time, was that they were able to stay within a formula, but do variations of a theme. Ant-Man is a heist film. Winter Soldier was a political drama.

The way you break formula is by bending genre.

In many ways, the larger the IP gets, the less important continuity is. It becomes a collection of stories that turn into the closest thing we have to a modern mythology. Kirby, who is unarguably the greatest comic book artist who ever lived, was fascinated by the concept of pantheons of superheroes, and gods. And mythological stories work because they can be diversified for a wide range of audiences. The myriad ways that "Batman" can be expressed is a testament to how flexible mythic archetypes are—able to reflect the anxieties, humor, and aspirations of different audiences across generations and genres.

Batman is a loner. Batman has a family. Paradoxes like this one are at the heart of what makes his stories work. And the different genres of Batman have been explored in the comics for over 80 years. The character has appeared in over 10,000 comic books.

That doesn't work without challenging what genre means.

Which leads us to Andor, which I would place among the best 10 shows that I have ever seen (And perhaps only behind Mash, West Wing, The Venture Brothers, and Treme).

Let's be honest, Disney has always known that Andor was worth making, even though it will likely be a financial loss for the franchise. As much as Disney gets criticized for only being interested in finances, they have taken some risks over the last few years in the name of putting out stories that they felt needed to be put out, with casts that are often controversial. Some of those stories have worked, some have not.

Andor works. It will be viewed as a success regardless of whether it recoups what it cost.

And Andor works precisely because it is Star Wars. Star Wars has always been about being a part of the resistance; it just is usually also a space opera, involving God-like creatures. Andor is about the little guy.

Rather than seeing Andor as a monopolization of genre, I see it as a case of genre being smuggled into the mainstream through familiar icons. Hell, I'm certain that there is no way that Andor would have received a fraction of the budget that it did if it wasn't under the Star Wars IP. Andor's audience is greater because it is a Star Wars piece, and Andor informs all Star Wars, past and present moving forward.

It also serves as a guide for combatting authoritarianism.

It is precisely because Andor uses a familiar universe to explore unfamiliar thematic and narrative territory - colonialism, system oppression, disillusionment, radicalization - that it is more than just an IP extension. This is a blueprint about what rebellions look like, while also a reminder that the cost of rebellion is greater than many people are willing to pay, and that rebellion is not something that one can do without putting their entire beings into it.
 
nycfan said:
I saw the first episode last week and thought it had promise, but didn’t think that pilot lived up to the heady reviews I’ve read since season 2 premiered. But I loved Rogue One, and liked an interview I read with the lead writer on the show, so intend to keep watching. My husband was disappointed in the pilot though, so will take some effort to get him to watch. Always a battle to get him warmed up to a show. Left to his own devices, he would probably almost never watch scripted television or movies.
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I will be honest. I almost entirely dropped Andor two episodes in to the first season. It wasn't working for me, and I found it a little bit disjointed. The third episode pulled me in and by the end of episode number four, I realized that I was seeing something play out that was far greater than it had any right to be. The final two arcs of the first season are television at its finest.

Andor demands complete focus though. This isn't a show that works if you are feeling tired or distracted. You can't cook or scroll the internet while watching it because every moment of the show and every piece of dialogue moves the story forward, even if it sometimes feels like that movement is occurring at a glacial pace.
 
Icky Mettle said:
As with many shows— and particularly this one— the pilot is not indicative of the quality of the series. Also, don’t expect this to be like Rogue One. Rogue One has that campy (in a good way) Star Wars feel to it. Andor does not.

It probably took me about 4 episodes to start to get it. I initially thought I was supposed to view it through the same lens I view Star Wars movies/series. After several episodes, I realized I needed to completely discard those preconceptions and view it as a spy thriller that jus happens to exist in the galaxy where the events of Star Wars take place.
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I 100% agree with your last paragraph. You have to shift your perspective on what Andor is, vs. what you expected it to be, in order to fully immerse in it. With that in mind, Andor has its moments of campiness:
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sringwal said:
I will be honest. I almost entirely dropped Andor two episodes in to the first season. It wasn't working for me, and I found it a little bit disjointed. The third episode pulled me in and by the end of episode number four, I realized that I was seeing something play out that was far greater than it had any right to be. The final two arcs of the first season are television at its finest.

Andor demands complete focus though. This isn't a show that works if you are feeling tired or distracted. You can't cook or scroll the internet while watching it because every moment of the show and every piece of dialogue moves the story forward, even if it sometimes feels like that movement is occurring at a glacial pace.
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This was pretty much my experience. And it really is so different from other Star Wars series/movies because the dialogue is thoughtful, purposeful, and a critical aspect of the show.
 
sringwal said:
So, I get this perspective. I also disagree. IP's often get criticized for being formulaic and, to an extent, they are. Part of Marvel's success, for a long time, was that they were able to stay within a formula, but do variations of a theme. Ant-Man is a heist film. Winter Soldier was a political drama.

The way you break formula is by bending genre.

In many ways, the larger the IP gets, the less important continuity is. It becomes a collection of stories that turn into the closest thing we have to a modern mythology. Kirby, who is unarguably the greatest comic book artist who ever lived, was fascinated by the concept of pantheons of superheroes, and gods. And mythological stories work because they can be diversified for a wide range of audiences. The myriad ways that "Batman" can be expressed is a testament to how flexible mythic archetypes are—able to reflect the anxieties, humor, and aspirations of different audiences across generations and genres.

Batman is a loner. Batman has a family. Paradoxes like this one are at the heart of what makes his stories work. And the different genres of Batman have been explored in the comics for over 80 years. The character has appeared in over 10,000 comic books.

That doesn't work without challenging what genre means.

Which leads us to Andor, which I would place among the best 10 shows that I have ever seen (And perhaps only behind Mash, West Wing, The Venture Brothers, and Treme).

Let's be honest, Disney has always known that Andor was worth making, even though it will likely be a financial loss for the franchise. As much as Disney gets criticized for only being interested in finances, they have taken some risks over the last few years in the name of putting out stories that they felt needed to be put out, with casts that are often controversial. Some of those stories have worked, some have not.

Andor works. It will be viewed as a success regardless of whether it recoups what it cost.

And Andor works precisely because it is Star Wars. Star Wars has always been about being a part of the resistance; it just is usually also a space opera, involving God-like creatures. Andor is about the little guy.

Rather than seeing Andor as a monopolization of genre, I see it as a case of genre being smuggled into the mainstream through familiar icons. Hell, I'm certain that there is no way that Andor would have received a fraction of the budget that it did if it wasn't under the Star Wars IP. Andor's audience is greater because it is a Star Wars piece, and Andor informs all Star Wars, past and present moving forward.

It also serves as a guide for combatting authoritarianism.

It is precisely because Andor uses a familiar universe to explore unfamiliar thematic and narrative territory - colonialism, system oppression, disillusionment, radicalization - that it is more than just an IP extension. This is a blueprint about what rebellions look like, while also a reminder that the cost of rebellion is greater than many people are willing to pay, and that rebellion is not something that one can do without putting their entire beings into it.
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Thanks for the reply. I appreciate it.

I have absolutely zero problem with genre, as I'm a sucker for any number of formulaic and derivative science fiction novels. I find those large-scale patterns of subtle repetition and variation to be, dare I say it, beautiful. Rom coms--beautiful! In fact, I'm much more likely to bristle at modernist-cum-romantic pretensions to sui generis acts of creation than I am at the millionth iteration on this or that genre.

My point is not that Star Wars is a genre unto itself. I fully agree that this "universe" can sustain genres like crime noir or the political thriller or whatever. The point is that writers and directors and producers have to tell stories in these universes to begin with. Why do I have to learn about fighting authoritarianism in a story with Wookies? Imagine if Martin Scorsese had to set Mean Streets on Tattoine? IP dominates what could otherwise be straightforward genre exercise in television and film because of how studios and streamers finance production. Andrew Dewaard gets into the grim and gritty details in his recent book of 21st c. film and TV financing in Derivative Culture.

As for Andor, I would argue that Disney is not greenlighting it on the assumption that the series will lose money. Disney is greenlighting Andor to revitalize Star Wars for market segments that may have dismissed the brand as juvenile or unserious; it is trying to get parents--not just kids--interested in Disney+. I don't know the production timeline for Andor, but it was probably greenlit under Chapek around '20 or '21 when Disney made a huge streaming push that required LucasFilm, Pixar, and Marvel Entertainment to make direct-to-streaming content. A few years later, the Disney board bounced Chapek for streaming overproduction: billions in losses. When Iger returned as CEO, he radically curtailed the production of such content--it's why the only long-form original Pixar content for Disney+ is that Dream Studios (and Inside Out spinoff) and the upcoming softball cartoon.

George Lucas was something of a pretentious modernist muppet in the late 1960s and early 1970s. If you watch the opening scene of Filmmaker, his 1968 documentary about the making of The Rain People (Coppola, 1969), you see two kids on a beach making castles in the sand. The quasi-autuerist symbolism is obvious, as is the polemic against Hollywood studios. The irony, of course, is that now everyone has to make product in the sandbox that Lucas (and his corporate ilk) made.
 
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