U.S. destroys Venezuelan vessels | Trump declares airspace over Venezuela closed

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CRHeel94 said:
I would be shocked if we ever see American boots on the ground. Think a directed attack or a grab and snatch operation (which would be hard to execute) is more likely. I could also see the US trying to take out some facilities that have some loose link to the drug trade (including some military facilities).

I always thought that this was a big bluff to get the Venezuelan army to take out Maduro. Thing is Maduro has culled the officer ranks several times to make sure that the officers are loyal only to him (as are the top two guys).

Heard from a friend who's pretty well connected that the Cubans and Russians have told Maduro he cannot leave Venezuela.
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Has Trump painted himself In a corner? He has to take some action now or he will seem weak.
 
ChapelHillSooner said:
Has Trump painted himself In a corner? He has to take some action now or he will seem weak.
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Will be interesting to watch. My guess is they take out some facilities...some airfields or fueling facilities.

I'd love to see the Maduro regime fall, but I'm not sure how we get there exactly. The electoral path is obviously out. A coup is always in the cards but the actual cadre is loyal to Maduro. Armed insurgency is out.

The real problem is that a rebuild in Venezuela will be a huge undertaking and I have zero faith in their capacity to do it or for other countries to really help out.
 
ZenMode said:
Where were these Dems and their concern for murder when we droned Qasem Soleimani? Last time I checked, Soleimani hadn't killed anyone and was never given a trial.
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Where were you when they were handing out working brains? Even you can't possibly fail to appreciate the distinction between boaters and CIC of the Quds force. I'm not a super big fan of assassinating officials of other countries, but there is no equivalence here.
 
superrific said:
Where were you when they were handing out working brains? Even you can't possibly fail to appreciate the distinction between boaters and CIC of the Quds force. I'm not a super big fan of assassinating officials of other countries, but there is no equivalence here.
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There is some equivalence because we also took out a lot of low level people via drones, too.

That said, I don’t recall a double tap situation with drones in the Middle East.
 
superrific said:
Where were you when they were handing out working brains? Even you can't possibly fail to appreciate the distinction between boaters and CIC of the Quds force. I'm not a super big fan of assassinating officials of other countries, but there is no equivalence here.
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The reason you aren't a fan of assassinating leaders of other countries is probably very similar to the reason you are against killing drug traffickers. There are correct and incorrect ways to handle criminals. We went in and got Saddam Hussein, put him on trial and convicted him. And the other two situations, we just blew them up.
 
I'm not sure where I fall on the whole bombing the boats issue. I get it..there is a huge drug trade issue. The collateral harm over the last 50 years is astonishing, particularly close to home. Half of the homicides in Costa Rica are related to drug gang turf wars.
These people are on the other side of the border from some shithole, due process doesn't apply? Would that mean dealers in the US should get taken out without due process?
 
p
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ZenMode said:
Where were these Dems and their concern for murder when we droned Qasem Soleimani? Last time I checked, Soleimani hadn't killed anyone and was never given a trial.
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No topic changing. You said it was ratcheting up the temperature to remind soldiers that they shouldn't follow illegal orders because it implied that current orders might be illegal. Turns out, the current administration has quite literally ordered our troops to commit war crimes and those soldiers are now open to all kinds of legal horror in the future.
 
For the record, if Soleimani was clinging to boat debris in the Caribbean following a missile strike, it would be murder/war crime to kill him with a second missile.

"Regardless of whether the U.S. is involved in an armed conflict, law enforcement operations, or any other application of military force, international and domestic U.S. law prohibit the intentional targeting of defenseless persons. . . Under such circumstances, not only does international law prohibit targeting these survivors, but it also requires the attacking force to protect, rescue, and, if applicable, treat them as prisoners of war. Violations of these obligations are war crimes, murder, or both. There are no other options."
 
wmheel1287 said:
p
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No topic changing. You said it was ratcheting up the temperature to remind soldiers that they shouldn't follow illegal orders because it implied that current orders might be illegal. Turns out, the current administration has quite literally ordered our troops to commit war crimes and those soldiers are now open to all kinds of legal horror in the future.
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What judicial body has determined that war crimes have been committed and when was anyone charged and convicted of war crimes?

With all of the questionable things that are military has done, when have Democrats and Congress ever put out such a message, directed at our military personnel?
 
ZenMode said:
What judicial body has determined that war crimes have been committed and when was anyone charged and convicted of war crimes?

With all of the questionable things that are military has done, when have Democrats and Congress ever put out such a message, directed at our military personnel?
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You don’t get to defend your war crimes by saying no one has found them to be war crimes yet. If that worked, the Nuremberg trials would have been very short.
 
ZenMode said:
What judicial body has determined that war crimes have been committed and when was anyone charged and convicted of war crimes?

With all of the questionable things that are military has done, when have Democrats and Congress ever put out such a message, directed at our military personnel?
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Please point us to the score
ZenMode said:
The reason you aren't a fan of assassinating leaders of other countries is probably very similar to the reason you are against killing drug traffickers. There are correct and incorrect ways to handle criminals. We went in and got Saddam Hussein, put him on trial and convicted him. And the other two situations, we just blew them up.
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So essentially "the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must" school of thought straight from the Melian Dialogue. Nice to see that American foreign policy has evolved so much for MAGA since that time period.
 
Calheel said:
You don’t get to defend your war crimes by saying no one has found them to be war crimes yet. If that worked, the Nuremberg trials would have been very short.
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I'm not defending war crimes, at all. Like I said, politicians, especially Democrats, have question the actions of our military many times throughout history. When have they ever done something like this? When have they ever put out a message directly to our military personnel?
 
Mundial said:
Please point us to the score

So essentially "the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must" school of thought straight from the Melian Dialogue. Nice to see that American foreign policy has evolved so much for MAGA since that time period.
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I don't know who you are talking to, but I don't support bombing alleged drug boats or droning terrorists in foreign countries.

That's why I specifically called out our handling of Saddam Hussein as an example of the correct way to do things.
 
ZenMode said:
I don't know who you are talking to, but I don't support bombing alleged drug boats or droning terrorists in foreign countries.

That's why I specifically called out our handling of Saddam Hussein as an example of the correct way to do things.
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Well If I misunderstood your point please state it clearly. All the "what aboutisms" that our grade school teachers would have paddled us for as elementary school children keeps obscuring your position.

Perhaps if you explained it in your native language?
 
Mundial said:
Well If I misunderstood your point please state it clearly. All the "what aboutisms" that our grade school teachers would have paddled us for as elementary school children keeps obscuring your position.

Perhaps if you explained it in your native language?
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It's not my fault you can't follow a conversation which, in this case, was about the actions of the six congressional Democrats raising the political temperature.
 
ZenMode said:
I'm not defending war crimes, at all. Like I said, politicians, especially Democrats, have question the actions of our military many times throughout history. When have they ever done something like this? When have they ever put out a message directly to our military personnel?
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Not sure how many of the trainers are Democrats but every Marine is given that exact message in boot camp. Not sure why it strikes you as controversial.

 
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