U.S. destroys Venezuelan vessels | Trump declares airspace over Venezuela closed

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TangledUpInBlue06 said:
He can't answer that without raising the temperature because no judicial/legal body with jurisdiction has made a decision.
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Sometimes a licensed medical practitioner is required to diagnose a broken bone, at other times, we can all plainly see the jagged bloody stump of a femur sticking out from a leg. When that happens, you don't need a doctor to render a diagnosis the patient has suffered a broken bone.
 
And just in case there is any doubt, here's a group of Doctors explaining why the evidence before you eyes is exactly what it looks like, a badly broken bone:
www.justsecurity.org

The Just Security Podcast: Murder on the High Seas? What You Need to Know about the U.S. Strike on the Caribbean Vessel

Rebecca Ingber and Brian Finucane join Tess Bridgeman to unpack what you need to know about the US attack on a vessel in the Caribbean.
www.justsecurity.org www.justsecurity.org
www.justsecurity.org

The Just Security Podcast: Murder on the High Seas Part II -- What We Know about U.S. Vessel Strikes One Month In

Tess Bridgeman and Rachel Goldbrenner are joined by Rebecca Ingber and Brian Finucane to analyze the U.S. military campaign in the Caribbean.
www.justsecurity.org www.justsecurity.org
www.justsecurity.org

The Just Security Podcast: Murder on the High Seas Part III

Tess Bridgeman is joined by Rebecca Ingber and Brian Finucane to assess how the campaign has evolved and what to expect moving forward.
www.justsecurity.org www.justsecurity.org
www.justsecurity.org

The Just Security Podcast: Murder on the High Seas Part IV

A panel of experts, co-hosted with RCLS, discuss the Trump administration's campaign of lethal strikes against suspected drug traffickers.
www.justsecurity.org www.justsecurity.org
www.justsecurity.org

Unlawful Orders and Killing Shipwrecked Boat Strike Survivors: An Expert Backgrounder

An expert backgrounder on the reported Hegseth "no quarter" order to kill everyone aboard a suspected drug boat in the Caribbean on Sept. 2.
www.justsecurity.org www.justsecurity.org
 
Ddseddse said:
Sometimes a licensed medical practitioner is required to diagnose a broken bone, at other times, we can all plainly see the jagged bloody stump of a femur sticking out from a leg. When that happens, you don't need a doctor to render a diagnosis the patient has suffered a broken bone.
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Or as Bob Dylan said, you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.
 
Note the "on the other hand" language...

18.3.2.1 Clearly Illegal Orders to Commit Law of War Violations. The requirement to refuse to comply with orders to commit law of war violations applies to orders to perform conduct that is clearly illegal or orders that the subordinate knows, in fact, are illegal.For example, orders to fire upon the shipwrecked would be clearly illegal.27 Similarly, orders to kill defenseless persons who have submitted to and are under effective physical control would also be clearly illegal.28 On the other hand, the duty not to comply with orders that are clearly illegal would be limited in its application when the subordinate is not competent to evaluate whether the rule has been violated.29

The "on the other hand" language is important because it indicates clearly that the preceding example (firing on shipwrecked survivors) does not qualify as an example where the subsequent caveat (except if the person getting the order doesn't have enough information to tell if the order is illegal) would apply.
 
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Ddseddse said:

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Good find. This is the text of footnote 27, which is also illuminative --

27 Judgement in Case of Lieutenants Dithmar and Boldt, Hospital Ship “Llandovery Castle” (Second Criminal Senate of the Imperial Court of Justice, Germany, Jul. 16, 1921), reprinted in 16 AJIL, 708, 721-22 (1922) (“It is certainly to be urged in favor of the military subordinates, that they are under no obligation to question the order of their superior officer, and they can count upon its legality. But no such confidence can be held to exist, if such an order is universally known to everybody, including also the accused, to be without any doubt whatever against the law. This happens only in rare and exceptional cases. But this case was precisely one of them, for in the present instance, it was perfectly clear to the accused that killing defenceless people in the life-boats could be nothing else but a breach of the law. As naval officers by profession they were well aware, as the naval expert Saalwiachter has strikingly stated, that one is not legally authorized to kill defenceless people. They well knew that this was the case here. They quickly found out the facts by questioning the occupants in the boats when these were stopped. They could only have gathered, from the order given by Patzig, that he wished to make use of his subordinates to carry out a breach of the law. They should, therefore, have refused to obey.”).
 
I haven’t followed this thread much, but can someone explain to me the trump admin’s fascination with Venezuela and ousting or destabilizing Maduro?

It’s clearly not about drugs, otherwise they’d be after Mexico for fentanyl and Colombia for coke. As I understand it, Venezuela is a very minor player in the narcotics scene.

Is it as simple as gaining a favorable deal or control of their oil?
 
duluoz said:
I haven’t followed this thread much, but can someone explain to me the trump admin’s fascination with Venezuela and ousting or destabilizing Maduro?

It’s clearly not about drugs, otherwise they’d be after Mexico for fentanyl and Colombia for coke. As I understand it, Venezuela is a very minor player in the narcotics scene.

Is it as simple as gaining a favorable deal or control of their oil?
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Oil Well Fire GIF
AND
Republican National Convention Election GIF by PBS News
 
nycfan said:


🎁 —> https://www.wsj.com/politics/nation...f?st=wt8yQP&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink
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“… The admiral, a 60-year-old Navy helicopter pilot nicknamed “Bull,” had seemed a good fit to carry out Trump’s military campaign against drug traffickers after the new president came into office. Holsey voiced support for stepping up interdiction of drug shipments and had experience at such missions.

“My first deployment to the Southcom area of responsibility was over 33 years ago conducting counterdrug missions,” he told lawmakers at his Senate confirmation hearing in September 2024, arguing for a more muscular approach to “dismantle the drug cartels” responsible for tens of thousands of American deaths.

… A few weeks after he took over Southern Command Holsey met with the newly confirmed Hegseth on a secure video conference, and received his marching orders.

“You’re either on the team or you’re not,” Hegseth told Holsey, according to notes from a participant. “When you get an order, you move out fast and don’t ask questions.”

After Trump said in a March speech to Congress that he wanted to “reclaim” the Panama Canal, Hegseth ordered Holsey to develop military options to ensure unfettered American access to the strategic waterway, according to two former officials.

… Late in the summer, as the military began striking alleged drug boats, Holsey was initially concerned about murky legal authority for the boat strike campaign, according to former officials. With other military units under separate chains of command also involved, including elite special operations units, Holsey objected that parts of the operations fell outside his direct control, they said.

But even before the boat strikes began, Hegseth had lost confidence in Holsey and was looking to replace him, according to a U.S. official. …”
 
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