UNC/ACC Basketball History & UNC/Duke Rivalry

donbosco said:
In Mary Norton's 1952 children's book The Borrowers, she refers to House Borrowers in contrast to Field Borrowers. There is a certain amount of subtle imperialism built in to this book (there is a child who has come home from colonized India but I admit to not having caught any of that as a child.

The Wizard of Oz is also a fairly problematic children's book as Baum was a huge hater of American Indians and intended the Flying Monkeys to embody them. When the monkeys take flight after Dorothy was the most terrifying part of the film for me to be sure. I read the book to my daughter when she was a child and had to literally censor some of the horrifying scenes -- it was, after all, a bedtime story. I didn't remember that from my own childhood read.
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About 15 years ago when I got my first Kindle, I downloaded and read all the Tarzan books, among the favorites of my childhood. They were written roughly from 1910 or so to 1940. I was amazed at just how racist and sexist that they were from an adult POV. I was also amazed at how that changed as ERB and the books matured. He was still what we would consider an ass about it but the progression was impressive.

Interesting sidenote. There's always been a story that he set out to write the worst book he could when he wrote the first one.
 
Centerpiece said:
I understand completely. However the "house" term has nothing to do with what some might think. It comes directly from Harry Potter and the "House Elf" Dobby. The Harry Potter books and movies were all the rage in the early 2000's and that's when the phrase "house dookie" became prevalent on the UNC boards. It was a direct reference to Dobby. It was not meant to be a reference to anything else. That said, did J.K. Rowling come up with the term for her books based on old Slavery terminology from the American South in the 1800's? Who knows?

I think the phrase on the UNC boards was a bit of double-speak in that it's intention was both a jab at the dookie in question and almost as a cute term of "endearment" in a strange, schadenfreude sort of way, perhaps?
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I'm pretty sure I heard the words House N-word, well before I ever heard about Harry Potter.

www.spiked-online.com

Of course ‘house negro’ is a racial slur

It is incredible that anyone would pretend otherwise.
www.spiked-online.com www.spiked-online.com

From the article:
The term ‘house negro’ comes from the days of slavery, when light-skinned slaves worked in the house. Field negroes were usually darker-skinned and were given the job of ploughing the fields. Indeed, the masters initially called them house and field niggers, though negro came to replace the word ****** with time. The work in the field was tough. Fingers bled in the blistering sun from picking cotton. You would get beaten badly and life was cruel.

That's the reason I thought people were asking to not use this term.


Really, I don't believe we need to call the dook fans anything different. If one doesn't like what they post, just ignore them.

From what I've read so far, I've seen no issue with any dook fans. Even though I disagree, and I believe that most disagree that Dean used the 4 corners because he was outmanned.
 
finesse said:
About 15 years ago when I got my first Kindle, I downloaded and read all the Tarzan books, among the favorites of my childhood. They were written roughly from 1910 or so to 1940. I was amazed at just how racist and sexist that they were from an adult POV. I was also amazed at how that changed as ERB and the books matured. He was still what we would consider an ass about it but the progression was impressive.

Interesting sidenote. There's always been a story that he set out to write the worst book he could when he wrote the first one.
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My wife and I often discuss this when watching some older films. It is very interesting what was once simply accepted as normal.
 
Centerpiece said:
Oh, yes... I can understand that. I was just referencing a term from days gone by that seemed apropos.
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Yeah, there's another term from years gone by that starts with the word "house" that is absolutely not apropos. And your use of "house dookie" is uncomfortably close to it. maxcrowder is good people, let's get over this childish foolishness...
 
sringwal said:
With that in mind, max - you are deliberately poking the bear, here, to get a rise.
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Poke away! If a fanbase can't take (and rebut in kind) the poking from a rival fanbase, they don't deserve to even be called fans. Sass maxcrowder's UNC sass all you want, but don't sit here and whine that he shouldn't be "here" on a "UNC message board." That's weak. That's bullshit. Bring it, motherfuckers!
 
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Lots of gutless tough guys on here just like IC. Tough keyboard warriors who cant handle another fans opinion. Im gonna ignore because Im a fragile puss lmmfao
 
hedge said:
Poke away! If a fanbase can't take (and rebut in kind) the poking from a rival fanbase, they don't deserve to even be called fans. Sass maxcrowder's UNC sass all you want, but don't sit here and whine that he should be "here" on a "UNC message board." That's weak. That's bullshit. Bring it, motherfuckers!
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Well, its Rock's messageboard and he is a Jayhawk, albeit Tar Heel by blood. And we effectively merged Devil's Den and IC, so it is not really a UNC message board.
 
@UNCatTech “…I disagree, and I believe that most disagree that Dean used the 4 corners because he was outmanned.”

Among the examples that I wrote up on page 10, it seems arguable that Coach Smith deployed the Four Corners Offense in 1965-66 at times to overcome a height disadvantage and accentuate a quickness advantage. I think at other times it was the pace that he wanted to be in charge of - and I think that the Four Corners wuitd obviously evolved into a potent means of mounting a uber disciplined attack during the Phil Ford years — a la according to ‘Sports Illustrated’ — The FORD Corners.
 
Dean didn't like to play against a zone. A lot of the reason for the 47-40 game was that under Bill Foster ,Duke was a very good zone team. Otoh, the week before, Clemson got them out of the zone and beat them by about 20 or something.
 
donbosco said:
@UNCatTech “…I disagree, and I believe that most disagree that Dean used the 4 corners because he was outmanned.”

Among the examples that I wrote up on page 10, it seems arguable that Coach Smith deployed the Four Corners Offense in 1965-66 at times to overcome a height disadvantage and accentuate a quickness advantage. I think at other times it was the pace that he wanted to be in charge of - and I think that the Four Corners wuitd obviously evolved into a potent means of mounting a uber disciplined attack during the Phil Ford years — a la according to ‘Sports Illustrated’ — The FORD Corners.
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Thanks.

I see this as strategy. The way it was mentioned earlier it came across like the slow down the Doe employed against dook when we were clearly out manned.

Maybe that happened, I don't know, but I don't see that as the norm. I see the 4 corners, as you have presented, as strategic, not scared.
 
finesse said:
About 15 years ago when I got my first Kindle, I downloaded and read all the Tarzan books, among the favorites of my childhood. They were written roughly from 1910 or so to 1940. I was amazed at just how racist and sexist that they were from an adult POV.
Click to expand...
 
In 1982, when UNC played @Wake (the Deacs had beaten UNC in Carmichael with Perkins out with the flu), Wake aggressively defended the Four Corners. All five Heels could handle the ball and pass well; of course, Worthy, Perkins, and Jordan could finish on damn near anyone. What was a close game became a rout.

I’m convinced that Terry Holland saw that game and wanted nothing to do with defending Worthy, Perkins, and Jordan in the Four Corners; so, he camped Ralph squarely under the basket and had Ricky Stokes passively “chase” and hoped the Heels would turn over the ball.
 
UNCatTech said:
I'm pretty sure I heard the words House N-word, well before I ever heard about Harry Potter.

www.spiked-online.com

Of course ‘house negro’ is a racial slur

It is incredible that anyone would pretend otherwise.
www.spiked-online.com www.spiked-online.com

From the article:
The term ‘house negro’ comes from the days of slavery, when light-skinned slaves worked in the house. Field negroes were usually darker-skinned and were given the job of ploughing the fields. Indeed, the masters initially called them house and field niggers, though negro came to replace the word ****** with time. The work in the field was tough. Fingers bled in the blistering sun from picking cotton. You would get beaten badly and life was cruel.

That's the reason I thought people were asking to not use this term.


Really, I don't believe we need to call the dook fans anything different. If one doesn't like what they post, just ignore them.

From what I've read so far, I've seen no issue with any dook fans. Even though I disagree, and I believe that most disagree that Dean used the 4 corners because he was outmanned.
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Well, the ironic thing is - this all started when max literally called me the n - word. It was a direct assault, totally uncalled for. Now, if he wants to talk smack about UNC basketball - I can take that and I'll give it back accordingly. But I would do that in a way of not calling him names - other than referring to him as a "dookie". I certainly wouldn't call anyone the n-word.

So you see how this all started. I made a comment about Dean and 4C... and I DID NOT reply or mention max at all, I didn't tag him or respond to one of his poasts. He came at me out of the blue and commented on MY post. And he literally called me n****. I naturally took exception to that sort of personal attack on this message board. I reported is comment and the mods went back and deleted his use of that word from his post.

He still came at me with more smart-alec retorts, etc. etc. so I simply hearkened back to the days of the old IC board whereby Manhattanheel and 100's of others would use the term "house dookie" - which at that time was bandied about quite frequently on that board. It was an obvious reference to Potter books and Dobby the elf. I don't think many, if any, at that time extrapolated the trope-connection which is plain to see now, in retrospect. I'm sorry I made the reference and take it back. I've even deleted the poast with that in there.

But again, the irony is: max literally called me a ******! He started this mess. I took exception. I dug up the old IC reference. And now I'm getting labeled a wimp who can't take smack talk from a dookie on a UNC basketball thread. AND now I'm the bad guy because of the 'house' reference, which I had nothing to do with it's inception back in 2000's when it came into being in the first place.

So, fuck max, and screw anyone else who takes exception with me because I've ignored the SOB.

Finally, as I've stated before... on other threads... we just got our power turned back on Friday night late. We were without power for 8 days. Without water for 3 days, and without potable water for 3 more days after that. I couldn't reach my 88 year old mother who lives in the Asheville area for about a week. Trees down in my yard crashing over my backyard fence whereby my dogs can now get out; A foot of water in my basement; Had to throw out everything in the fridge and freezer... I was still in the throes of dealing with all the hurricane aftermath - and still am - when max came at me, out of the blue for no fucking reason, calling me horrible names. For NO FUCKING REASON. I was a little bit "testy" at that point in time. If you'll go back and notice the time stamp on my comment about Dean and 4C (the one which max quoted me on and called me a ******) it was exactly 7:01 on Friday night. I still didn't have power at my house then. I made that post from another locale where I had power on my iPad and an internet connection. And because I defended Dean and his use of the 4C, this SOB dookie comes at me calling me ******.

I'm sorry boys and girls, I'm not taking that shit from anybody. Again, fuck max and screw anybody that wants to take his side and defend him in all of this brouhaha.

Now, if another dookie wants to come on this thread - which I started BTW - and talk basketball, fine. Come at me m-fuckers. But if you call me a ******, we're gonna have bigger problems. Capice?
 
Centerpiece said:
Well, the ironic thing is - this all started when max literally called me the n - word.
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I did not see that. If that happened, it's beyond the pale of acceptable language on a message board like this one.

As far as the dookie stuff goes, I'm almost 60 years old, I just find that kind of stuff a little childish, esp. when directed towards people who share my political views and who I suspect I'd be friends with in real life, as I think would be the case with maxcrowder and the other Duke fans on this board. I'm more than happy to engage in chatroom flame wars with them or any other rival. I think we, as Carolina fans, have enough substantive arguments (and sass) to make without resorting to simplified name-calling ("dookies," etc), that's some low level Trump shit.

Our record speaks for itself. And fuck it, I'll say it: Steel sharpens steel. There's a reason we don't really consider NC State a rival in basketball, we fucking own them. Duke is a rival b/c they're fucking good and they've broken our hearts many times. That's why beating them in the Final Four was as sweet as any natty we've ever won. Carolina / Duke is beyond NCAA tournaments or anything else, nobody else understands it, but if Duke wasn't Duke then it wouldn't exist.

Let's give props and repect and graditutde where it belongs. Did I mention that we beat them in the Final fuckin' Four? And also in K's last home game in Cameron? That can never be taken away or lived down. They've won some big ones too, but nothing like those two. Bring it on, we can take it. I don't need to misspell their name to know we owned them in the two biggest games we ever played against each other (and you can be goddamn sure they know it too), and plenty of others..
 
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Centerpiece said:
Well, the ironic thing is - this all started when max literally called me the n - word. It was a direct assault, totally uncalled for. Now, if he wants to talk smack about UNC basketball - I can take that and I'll give it back accordingly. But I would do that in a way of not calling him names - other than referring to him as a "dookie". I certainly wouldn't call anyone the n-word.

So you see how this all started. I made a comment about Dean and 4C... and I DID NOT reply or mention max at all, I didn't tag him or respond to one of his poasts. He came at me out of the blue and commented on MY post. And he literally called me n****. I naturally took exception to that sort of personal attack on this message board. I reported is comment and the mods went back and deleted his use of that word from his post.

He still came at me with more smart-alec retorts, etc. etc. so I simply hearkened back to the days of the old IC board whereby Manhattanheel and 100's of others would use the term "house dookie" - which at that time was bandied about quite frequently on that board. It was an obvious reference to Potter books and Dobby the elf. I don't think many, if any, at that time extrapolated the trope-connection which is plain to see now, in retrospect. I'm sorry I made the reference and take it back. I've even deleted the poast with that in there.

But again, the irony is: max literally called me a ******! He started this mess. I took exception. I dug up the old IC reference. And now I'm getting labeled a wimp who can't take smack talk from a dookie on a UNC basketball thread. AND now I'm the bad guy because of the 'house' reference, which I had nothing to do with it's inception back in 2000's when it came into being in the first place.

So, fuck max, and screw anyone else who takes exception with me because I've ignored the SOB.

Finally, as I've stated before... on other threads... we just got our power turned back on Friday night late. We were without power for 8 days. Without water for 3 days, and without potable water for 3 more days after that. I couldn't reach my 88 year old mother who lives in the Asheville area for about a week. Trees down in my yard crashing over my backyard fence whereby my dogs can now get out; A foot of water in my basement; Had to throw out everything in the fridge and freezer... I was still in the throes of dealing with all the hurricane aftermath - and still am - when max came at me, out of the blue for no fucking reason, calling me horrible names. For NO FUCKING REASON. I was a little bit "testy" at that point in time. If you'll go back and notice the time stamp on my comment about Dean and 4C (the one which max quoted me on and called me a ******) it was exactly 7:01 on Friday night. I still didn't have power at my house then. I made that post from another locale where I had power on my iPad and an internet connection. And because I defended Dean and his use of the 4C, this SOB dookie comes at me calling me ******.

I'm sorry boys and girls, I'm not taking that shit from anybody. Again, fuck max and screw anybody that wants to take his side and defend him in all of this brouhaha.

Now, if another dookie wants to come on this thread - which I started BTW - and talk basketball, fine. Come at me m-fuckers. But if you call me a ******, we're gonna have bigger problems. Capice?
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i think that dude sucks but to be fair it doesn't seem clear that he called you the n - word.

i could've been intended to be "b*tch please...." same number of letters.....
 
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