UNC Men’s Basketball 2025-2026

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sringwal said:
I agree, but I also don't think that you reasonably fire someone in a year they make it to the Elite 8, unless it is a year where we are in the "last four in" category again, only to go on a roll.
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I know it’s tough to game out hypotheticals, but if we get to selection Sunday and our body of work for the entire season has been ~8 seed level or worse then in my opinion the damage would have already been done. I would hope that an extra upset win or two in the tournament wouldn’t be a deciding factor back the other way.
 
in addition to playing good basketball and getting results i think we need to see positive markers off the court, too......HS recruiting, portal recruiting, media and publicity, tanner doing a good job, etc. etc.

the program needs to be stable and shiny in all respects. anything less is not UNC standard.
 
4thgenheel said:
in addition to playing good basketball and getting results i think we need to see positive markers off the court, too......HS recruiting, portal recruiting, media and publicity, tanner doing a good job, etc. etc.

the program needs to be stable and shiny in all respects. anything less is not UNC standard.
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And what happens otherwise?

HD out, you say. So then who’s your shoo-in to bring back the “UNC standard,” which is an idea from a college sports environment that no longer exists?

Not enough people are asking the right questions IMO. They just selfishly and impatiently want their glory days back, and even feel entitled to them. And that sentiment is going to do a whole lot more to dismantle what Dean and Roy have built than they seem to be grasping. And far more to dismantle it than a few middling seasons under HD would do.
 
thebruinbleedstarheelblue said:
Right, they won the play in game to make tournament.

They do not get a tournament win for that, this is a fact. The official tournament record was 0-1 last year.
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Yes, right. You said they “*made the play in” implying they did not make the tournament, and you smugly thought you were correcting the poster you quoted, when in fact that poster’s quote was accurate. Because they did, in fact, make the tournament.

Nobody said anything about tourney wins, except you just now.

Move goalposts much, when you’re wrong but can’t gracefully admit it?
 
sringwal said:
I was always a Barry Jacobs kid. Cooler stats.

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His mag was great but fairly short-lived. I had the ACC Handbook going back to the mid 1970s. I wish I still had all the old ones but my mom threw out a lot of them. I still have the 1980-81 edition and the 1983-84 edition including an autograph from Lorenzo Charles on the feature about State’s ‘83 title courtesy of the ACC barnstorming event coming to my town.
 
duluoz said:
And what happens otherwise?

HD out, you say. So then who’s your shoo-in to bring back the “UNC standard,” which is an idea from a college sports environment that no longer exists?

Not enough people are asking the right questions IMO. They just selfishly and impatiently want their glory days back, and even feel entitled to them. And that sentiment is going to do a whole lot more to dismantle what Dean and Roy have built than they seem to be grasping. And far more to dismantle it than a few middling seasons under HD would do.
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5 seasons isn't "impatient," gtfoh. i was 110% on the HD train until around december of last year. that's when the issues simply became too constant and replete for me to ignore. other folks have had different timelines. a large subset of our fanbase wanted him gone after 2023.

i'm a 4th generation alum and have loved UNC and UNCBB since i knew what they were but i won't give a shit any more if we continue to suck and i know a whole bunch of other lifers who feel the same way. i'm not entitled - i'm borderline apathetic.

consistently sucking undoes what dean and roy built a hell of a lot faster than hiring someone outside the family.
 
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4thgenheel said:
5 seasons isn't "impatient," gtfoh. i was 110% on the HD train until around december of last year. that's when the issues simply became too constant and replete for me to ignore. other folks have had different timelines. a large subset of our fanbase wanted him gone after 2023.

i'm a 4th generation alum and have loved UNC and UNCBB since i knew what they were but i won't give a shit any more if we continue to suck and i know a whole bunch of lifers who feel the same way. i'm not entitled - i'm borderline apathetic.

consistently sucking undoes what dean and roy built a hell of a lot faster than hiring someone outside the family.
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You didn’t answer the questions. And you’re not even asking them.

So, who then?
 
duluoz said:
And what happens otherwise?

HD out, you say. So then who’s your shoo-in to bring back the “UNC standard,” which is an idea from a college sports environment that no longer exists?

Not enough people are asking the right questions IMO. They just selfishly and impatiently want their glory days back, and even feel entitled to them. And that sentiment is going to do a whole lot more to dismantle what Dean and Roy have built than they seem to be grasping. And far more to dismantle it than a few middling seasons under HD would do.
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If no coach was ever fired until the school had a "shoo-in" replacement ready to replace them, then almost no coach would be fired. That's not the standard man. I don't know who would replace Hubert. But if we have five years of evidence that Hubert isn't the guy, it's time to make the next attempt at finding the guy. That's how it goes.

I'm not sure you mean it this way, but what you're saying sounds almost indistinguishable from "UNC should accept that it's no longer an elite program, and stop trying to be one again." I have a lot of sympathy for the idea that a lot of UNC fans were completely spoiled by the success that Dean and Roy had - and that it's not necessarily realistic to expect UNC to get back to having runs like it did from 1982-1993 or 2005-2009 - but I don't think there's any doubt that we should be striving to be a consistently better program than the one we've been for the past five years. You can acknowledge that the days of nearly annual 1 seeds and Sweet 16s aren't coming back and still have a standard for the program that Hubert hasn't met.
 
I'm thinking along the lines of @duluoz -- or at least entertaining such things -- i.e., that everything is so completely different from when Coach Smith, and even Coach Williams, was at the helm that the standards of measurement are basically unknowns.

I looked over the players bios (which at least we still provide...some schools don't even bother anymore...a few never did) because I care about WHO our players are...I want to know their majors, and who their parents are, whether they were college athletes, if they were academically inclined in high school or not...I can remember team guides of the past when majors were all over the place rather than concentrated in one that was clearly for athletes (some of the old team guides have that kind of info for posterity even). Here's what I got for this year's squad.

Communication studies major,
Exercise and sport science major in the sport administration program,
Exercise and sport science major in the sport administration program,
Sociology major,
Majoring in exercise and sport science in the sport administration program,
Majoring in exercise and sport science in the sport administration program with African Studies Minor,
Exercise and sport science major in the sport administration program,
Exercise and sport science major in the sport administration program,
Majoring in business administration,
Majoring in exercise and sport science.

That alone points to a character dramatically changed from the times with which most of us are holding up for comparison...or at least some of the older among us.

I wanted to know that players came to Carolina because the beauty of campus lured them here or a particular academic program or maybe even it was Franklin Street. None of that appears to be important anymore...the basketball players (and football for that matter probably for a longer time) are so far removed from the student body as to not be a part of it whatsoever.

I think some of those things were among our greatest advantages when Coach Smith and Williams were running things...and they simply don't matter anymore so it is understandable that, losing those things, would level out our competitiveness overall.

Fuck, why not go to Alabama? Or state college? Or Texas Tech or Houston?
 
4thgenheel said:
5 seasons isn't "impatient," gtfoh. i was 110% on the HD train until around december of last year. that's when the issues simply became too constant and replete for me to ignore. other folks have had different timelines. a large subset of our fanbase wanted him gone after 2023.

i'm a 4th generation alum and have loved UNC and UNCBB since i knew what they were but i won't give a shit any more if we continue to suck and i know a whole bunch of lifers who feel the same way. i'm not entitled - i'm borderline apathetic.

consistently sucking undoes what dean and roy built a hell of a lot faster than hiring someone outside the family.
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Yeah. Here's my thinking:

1. The Dean-Roy tradition was what made UNC basketball special. It was our connection to the past. Without that link, the past really doesn't matter. Two all-time NBA greats played at Wake Forest -- one guy usually considered top 10 of all time, the other is at least top 30. And who fucking cares? MJ attending UNC forty years ago really doesn't much matter . . . unless he was playing in the same system, with the same coaches and coaching philosophies. It's only in this way that the past continues to live.

2. But the Dean-Roy system does not work in today's game. I am quite certain Dean would have retired rather than coach in Wild-West pay-to-play. Ironically (IIRC) he was in favor of paying the players, but obviously a system that rewards seniority is not going to fare well when players can leave if they feel slighted. In today's word, Vince would probably have departed UNC after his up-and-down freshman year. Instead, he had to stay and he got much better as a player. Thing is, 19 year olds have trouble appreciating the value of patience and humility.

So if the system doesn't work, then the tradition is not very useful and doesn't really help us. In a world of mercenaries, loyalty -- a key Dean/Roy trait -- is almost oxymoronic.

3. That said: one reason to perhaps counsel for patience (and I'm not saying I agree with this, only that it's a valid point) is that we haven't had a great look at HD because of the weirdness of the post-Covid landscape. The teams that have been successful in this era have featured a lot of 5th year transfers. Indeed, our best season under HD was bolstered by Cormac Ryan. And now that's gone, and the overall basketball ability in college will drop considerably. I'm not sure how much that matters in the end, but it certainly has caused imbalance in the college game.
 
rodoheel said:
If no coach was ever fired until the school had a "shoo-in" replacement ready to replace them, then almost no coach would be fired. That's not the standard man. I don't know who would replace Hubert. But if we have five years of evidence that Hubert isn't the guy, it's time to make the next attempt at finding the guy. That's how it goes.

I'm not sure you mean it this way, but what you're saying sounds almost indistinguishable from "UNC should accept that it's no longer an elite program, and stop trying to be one again." I have a lot of sympathy for the idea that a lot of UNC fans were completely spoiled by the success that Dean and Roy had - and that it's not necessarily realistic to expect UNC to get back to having runs like it did from 1982-1993 or 2005-2009 - but I don't think there's any doubt that we should be striving to be a consistently better program than the one we've been for the past five years. You can acknowledge that the days of nearly annual 1 seeds and Sweet 16s aren't coming back and still have a standard for the program that Hubert hasn't met.
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There's a lot of what you say that I get. My problem is that, by my POV, it's too much about on the court success. That might be more easily fixed by a replacement.

There's just always be a lot more to my memories of the program than that. I'm not sure what we had can be retained. I'd like to believe it can. When I look at coaches available, HD's resume still looks stronger, especially in that aspect, than it would in a vacuum.

I'm not going much further with this. My health made me take a break about 6 years ago and I recognized that my best memories of all college sports are behind me.
 
superrific said:
Yeah. Here's my thinking:

1. The Dean-Roy tradition was what made UNC basketball special. It was our connection to the past. Without that link, the past really doesn't matter. Two all-time NBA greats played at Wake Forest -- one guy usually considered top 10 of all time, the other is at least top 30. And who fucking cares? MJ attending UNC forty years ago really doesn't much matter . . . unless he was playing in the same system, with the same coaches and coaching philosophies. It's only in this way that the past continues to live.

2. But the Dean-Roy system does not work in today's game. I am quite certain Dean would have retired rather than coach in Wild-West pay-to-play. Ironically (IIRC) he was in favor of paying the players, but obviously a system that rewards seniority is not going to fare well when players can leave if they feel slighted. In today's word, Vince would probably have departed UNC after his up-and-down freshman year. Instead, he had to stay and he got much better as a player. Thing is, 19 year olds have trouble appreciating the value of patience and humility.

So if the system doesn't work, then the tradition is not very useful and doesn't really help us. In a world of mercenaries, loyalty -- a key Dean/Roy trait -- is almost oxymoronic.

3. That said: one reason to perhaps counsel for patience (and I'm not saying I agree with this, only that it's a valid point) is that we haven't had a great look at HD because of the weirdness of the post-Covid landscape. The teams that have been successful in this era have featured a lot of 5th year transfers. Indeed, our best season under HD was bolstered by Cormac Ryan. And now that's gone, and the overall basketball ability in college will drop considerably. I'm not sure how much that matters in the end, but it certainly has caused imbalance in the college game.
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"So if the system doesn't work, then the tradition is not very useful and doesn't really help us. In a world of mercenaries, loyalty -- a key Dean/Roy trait -- is almost oxymoronic."

this sentence nails where we are right now.

i just don't see #3 re: more patience with poor or mediocre results from HD beyond this season being realistic or reasonable at this point. other schools are bringing in new coaches who are immediately successful. we have arguably the greatest CBB program of all time, there's no reason that we can't do that too.
 
duluoz said:
You didn’t answer the questions. And you’re not even asking them.

So, who then?
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lmao, i'm not required to answer your obnoxious, rhetorical, loaded questions.

tommy lloyd, otzelberger, dusty may, the young guy at texas tech, etc. etc. etc. there are tons of options.
 
4thgenheel said:
"So if the system doesn't work, then the tradition is not very useful and doesn't really help us. In a world of mercenaries, loyalty -- a key Dean/Roy trait -- is almost oxymoronic."

this sentence nails where we are right now.

i just don't see #3 re: more patience with poor or mediocre results from HD beyond this season being realistic or reasonable at this point. other schools are bringing in new coaches who are immediately successful. we have arguably the greatest CBB program of all time, there's no reason that we can't do that too.
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I get this too...it appears to be the reality. But frankly, it removes most (all?) of the real sense of Alma Mater from the experience. Now that doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with allegiance to a professional team or a school which you didn't attend...but it does make it different.

I worked at a Division III school for 15 years and experienced the sense of allegiance that student body tended to have...I'm beginning to wonder if such places...where play is at that level of recruitment...might be far, far closer to what was once the case at Carolina during our own matriculations.
 
continuing to insist that HD needs more time even if this coming season isn't good enough sounds like the delusions of victims of stockholm syndrome.

crazy stuff. meanwhile, the program is floundering and the CBB world is passing us by.
 
rodoheel said:
IMO five seasons is more than enough patience. Matt Doherty got three seasons before he was canned. Arguably last season should have gotten Hubert canned. Candidly I think that he would have been canned if not for two specific wins from his first season - winning @ Duke in Coach K's final home game and beating Duke in the FF. I don't mean to suggest that those wins weren't important - they were two of the most important wins in the history of the program - but just to note that aside from those two wins it's not easy to defend Hubert's coaching tenue at UNC on the merits.

if we have another substandard season this year I simply can't see any reasonable argument that Hubert has given us reason to think he can build us back into an elite program. Again, five years is plenty of time. The changing landscape is undoubtedly making things more difficult, but other coaches at other programs are dealing with the game thing and succeeding, and our standard for success at UNC is justifiably high.
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Doherty got forced out after three seasons for two primary reasons: (1) most of the players hated playing for him (and their families didn’t like him) and they were threatening to leave, and (2) the athletic department knew they had Roy waiting n the wings. In all likelihood, had the players liked playing for Doherty, he would have kept his job. He brought in a lot of talent and based on that, by itself, thee was good reason to broomstick about the near future.
 
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