UNC ONLY BASKETBALL 2024-25 SEASON

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duluoz said:
They need dogs. The whole program, from the coaching staff down through the bottom of the roster. There are some guys I don’t doubt in that sense — RJ, Trimble… maybe some of the newer guys like Powell, Lubin, Brown are coming along in that mold. On the staff, I know HD is a warrior, but it’s so hard to tell what the disconnect is between his mentality and that translating into the team culture. Maybe the assistants need a big shakeup.

But the staff needs to identify recruits who get after it, mix it up, take pride in shutting down their man or boxing out and grabbing a board. Where has David Noel gone? Derrick Phelps. Marcus Ginyard. Danny Green. George Lynch. Theo Pinson. There are programs that seemingly have guys like that every season — Izzo, Baylor, Houston, plenty of mid-majors with guys who have chips on their shoulders… these recruits are out there, and they don’t all have 5 shiny stars next to their names in HS. Yes, to some degree you certainly need talent at a high level. But the roster makeup overall has got to be just plain tougher.

Bring in a roster full of dogs like that and I’ll live with whatever the record might be, from missing the tourney to winning a title. Because I know they’re going to leave it all out there. But what I absolutely can’t stand is soft. Guys who don’t compete for 40 minutes. And these current guys have shown stretches where we know they have that in them, and that only makes it all the more glaring and completely unacceptable when they don’t turn that on.

Everyone knows there are big challenges with post play which are also greatly affecting perimeter play. So if they get beat by sound, bigger, better teams, so be it. But if they beat themselves *over and over* due to a very apparent lack of effort, energy, mental toughness… that’s where I call bullshit. It’s that stuff, and NOT endless wins and championships, that I feel entitled to as a fan.
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I’d think the portal would be the place to best find them. The dogs have to be players too. College experience helps to identify both.
 
duluoz said:
They need dogs. The whole program, from the coaching staff down through the bottom of the roster. There are some guys I don’t doubt in that sense — RJ, Trimble… maybe some of the newer guys like Powell, Lubin, Brown are coming along in that mold. On the staff, I know HD is a warrior, but it’s so hard to tell what the disconnect is between his mentality and that translating into the team culture. Maybe the assistants need a big shakeup.

But the staff needs to identify recruits who get after it, mix it up, take pride in shutting down their man or boxing out and grabbing a board. Where has David Noel gone? Derrick Phelps. Marcus Ginyard. Danny Green. George Lynch. Theo Pinson. There are programs that seemingly have guys like that every season — Izzo, Baylor, Houston, plenty of mid-majors with guys who have chips on their shoulders… these recruits are out there, and they don’t all have 5 shiny stars next to their names in HS. Yes, to some degree you certainly need talent at a high level. But the roster makeup overall has got to be just plain tougher.

Bring in a roster full of dogs like that and I’ll live with whatever the record might be, from missing the tourney to winning a title. Because I know they’re going to leave it all out there. But what I absolutely can’t stand is soft. Guys who don’t compete for 40 minutes. And these current guys have shown stretches where we know they have that in them, and that only makes it all the more glaring and completely unacceptable when they don’t turn that on.

Everyone knows there are big challenges with post play which are also greatly affecting perimeter play. So if they get beat by sound, bigger, better teams, so be it. But if they beat themselves *over and over* due to a very apparent lack of effort, energy, mental toughness… that’s where I call bullshit. It’s that stuff, and NOT endless wins and championships, that I feel entitled to as a fan.
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This is exactly why everyone loved Harrison Ingram and to a lesser extent Cormac (he was a bit dirty dookish for my taste but ymmv, still a total dog). We need that on this team, someone who brings 40 minutes of abject ferocity.
 
Geisterfahrer said:
This is exactly why everyone loved Harrison Ingram and to a lesser extent Cormac (he was a bit dirty dookish for my taste but ymmv, still a total dog). We need that on this team, someone who brings 40 minutes of abject ferocity.
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Even though some would say Bacot was soft he did bring physicality and a bit of a chippy streak.
 
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There are really 2 parts of success of any athletic program...the big achievements and consistent success. A look at these two ideas under Hubert Davis will show why a lot of the fan base is, at the least, quite concerned about the state of the program.

The Big Achievements

In Hubert's 3-ish years in the program, we've had a number of achievements:

- 1 NC game appearance
- 1 Sweet 16 appearance
- 1 ACC Regular Season Title
- Vanquishing Satan to the realms of darkness (A 2 part mini-series)

Also, we've done well against our 2 main rivals:

- dook: 4-3 (including 2 of the biggest wins in the history of the rivalry)
- State: 5-2 (small deduction for losing in the ACCT final last year, but overall good)

Overall, Hubert has done pretty well at the big achievements. It hasn't been exceptional, but it's certainly been enough to be satisfactory.

Consistent Success

The two indicators of consistent success are record and ranking. Let's look at the data...

Record: 84-36 overall (.700), 44-17 conference (.721)

This is perfectly fine. It's not a knock-it-out-of-the-park record, but it's perfectly acceptable. A .700 win percentage is good, not great, and .721 conference win percentage is great.

(Side note: How many major conference coaches ever have had a higher conference win percentage than overall win percentage? It can't be many. It also speaks to how down the ACC overall has been during Hubert's tenure.)

Rankings: Oh no.

Rankings are an imperfect pseudoscience, but if viewed at the larger level rather than the granular level they are very instructive of how a team is viewed (and, realistically, is doing) against the other teams in college basketball. As the AP poll is the considered the best poll, I've used those numbers for this data set.

In the 66 rankings that have been release in the Hubert Era, here is how Carolina has done...

Ranked 1-5: 9
Ranked 6-10: 13
Ranked 11-15: 3
Ranked 16-20: 6
Ranked 21-25: 3
Not Ranked: 32

Here are the ranked/not ranked numbers by year:

2021-2022: 3 ranked/16 not ranked
2022-2023: 5/14
2023-2024: 21/0
2024-2025: 5/2 (currently not ranked and received 9 "points" in the last poll when 25th had 175 points)

Yikes.

Carolina has not been ranked among the Top 25 teams in the nation for 48.4% of the polls released during Hubert's time as HC. (And given that we're barely receiving votes right now, unless something major changes it will probably be over 50% by the end of this season.)

By this metric, we've only had 1 good year under Hubert.

Of his 3 full seasons, we've spent more time not ranked than ranked in 2 of them and we seem headed for another such season in year 4.

In 3 of 4 seasons (including this one thus far), our highest ranking of the year was in the first or second poll and we then fell down through and out of the rankings thereafter.

In short, we've not been a consistently well-thought of - or an actually good team - for the majority of Hubert's time as HC. This shows that where we fall short isn't against the best of the best...we can't even consistently be considered among "the good teams" during Hubert's tenure.

For a program like Carolina Basketball - one of the bluest of blue bloods, likely the second most accomplished program in the history of college basketball - this is simply an unacceptable run of mediocrity for a HC. To not be ranked in the Top 25 for roughly half of the time that Hubert has been HC is nothing short of a failure.

It is the lack of consistently being "good" by this metric that has him on the hot seat and fans seriously wondering if we need to make a change. And those fans are right to do so. It is not outrageous that a program like Carolina's expect that we are ranked in the Top 25 a significant majority of the time, it is simply the historical performance of the program. To call fans with such an expectation "entitled" is simply ludicrous and anyone expressing such a view is completely silly and ignoring the history of Carolina Basketball (and I'll stop there so that nycfan won't have to chide me violating the decorum of the board).

The problem for Hubert Davis is that we've consistently been a mediocre to merely decent team for the majority of this tenure. And, if it doesn't change soon, the program will almost certainly have to look for someone new to be the HC.
 
SnoopRob said:
There are really 2 parts of success of any athletic program...the big achievements and consistent success. A look at these two ideas under Hubert Davis will show why a lot of the fan base is, at the least, quite concerned about the state of the program.

The Big Achievements

In Hubert's 3-ish years in the program, we've had a number of achievements:

- 1 NC game appearance
- 1 Sweet 16 appearance
- 1 ACC Regular Season Title
- Vanquishing Satan to the realms of darkness (A 2 part mini-series)

Also, we've done well against our 2 main rivals:

- dook: 4-3 (including 2 of the biggest wins in the history of the rivalry)
- State: 5-2 (small deduction for losing in the ACCT final last year, but overall good)

Overall, Hubert has done pretty well at the big achievements. It hasn't been exceptional, but it's certainly been enough to be satisfactory.

Consistent Success

The two indicators of consistent success are record and ranking. Let's look at the data...

Record: 84-36 overall (.700), 44-17 conference (.721)

This is perfectly fine. It's not a knock-it-out-of-the-park record, but it's perfectly acceptable. A .700 win percentage is good, not great, and .721 conference win percentage is great.

(Side note: How many major conference coaches ever have had a higher conference win percentage than overall win percentage? It can't be many. It also speaks to how down the ACC overall has been during Hubert's tenure.)

Rankings: Oh no.

Rankings are an imperfect pseudoscience, but if viewed at the larger level rather than the granular level they are very instructive of how a team is viewed (and, realistically, is doing) against the other teams in college basketball. As the AP poll is the considered the best poll, I've used those numbers for this data set.

In the 66 rankings that have been release in the Hubert Era, here is how Carolina has done...

Ranked 1-5: 9
Ranked 6-10: 13
Ranked 11-15: 3
Ranked 16-20: 6
Ranked 21-25: 3
Not Ranked: 32

Here are the ranked/not ranked numbers by year:

2021-2022: 3 ranked/16 not ranked
2022-2023: 5/14
2023-2024: 21/0
2024-2025: 5/2 (currently not ranked and received 9 "points" in the last poll when 25th had 175 points)

Yikes.

Carolina has not been ranked among the Top 25 teams in the nation for 48.4% of the polls released during Hubert's time as HC. (And given that we're barely receiving votes right now, unless something major changes it will probably be over 50% by the end of this season.)

By this metric, we've only had 1 good year under Hubert.

Of his 3 full seasons, we've spent more time not ranked than ranked in 2 of them and we seem headed for another such season in year 4.

In 3 of 4 seasons (including this one thus far), our highest ranking of the year was in the first or second poll and we then fell down through and out of the rankings thereafter.

In short, we've not been a consistently well-thought of - or an actually good team - for the majority of Hubert's time as HC. This shows that where we fall short isn't against the best of the best...we can't even consistently be considered among "the good teams" during Hubert's tenure.

For a program like Carolina Basketball - one of the bluest of blue bloods, likely the second most accomplished program in the history of college basketball - this is simply an unacceptable run of mediocrity for a HC. To not be ranked in the Top 25 for roughly half of the time that Hubert has been HC is nothing short of a failure.

It is the lack of consistently being "good" by this metric that has him on the hot seat and fans seriously wondering if we need to make a change. And those fans are right to do so. It is not outrageous that a program like Carolina's expect that we are ranked in the Top 25 a significant majority of the time, it is simply the historical performance of the program. To call fans with such an expectation "entitled" is simply ludicrous and anyone expressing such a view is completely silly and ignoring the history of Carolina Basketball (and I'll stop there so that nycfan won't have to chide me violating the decorum of the board).

The problem for Hubert Davis is that we've consistently been a mediocre to merely decent team for the majority of this tenure. And, if it doesn't change soon, the program will almost certainly have to look for someone new to be the HC.
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Yeah, but times have changed, so it's okay.
 
SnoopRob said:
There are really 2 parts of success of any athletic program...the big achievements and consistent success. A look at these two ideas under Hubert Davis will show why a lot of the fan base is, at the least, quite concerned about the state of the program.

The Big Achievements

In Hubert's 3-ish years in the program, we've had a number of achievements:

- 1 NC game appearance
- 1 Sweet 16 appearance
- 1 ACC Regular Season Title
- Vanquishing Satan to the realms of darkness (A 2 part mini-series)

Also, we've done well against our 2 main rivals:

- dook: 4-3 (including 2 of the biggest wins in the history of the rivalry)
- State: 5-2 (small deduction for losing in the ACCT final last year, but overall good)

Overall, Hubert has done pretty well at the big achievements. It hasn't been exceptional, but it's certainly been enough to be satisfactory.

Consistent Success

The two indicators of consistent success are record and ranking. Let's look at the data...

Record: 84-36 overall (.700), 44-17 conference (.721)

This is perfectly fine. It's not a knock-it-out-of-the-park record, but it's perfectly acceptable. A .700 win percentage is good, not great, and .721 conference win percentage is great.

(Side note: How many major conference coaches ever have had a higher conference win percentage than overall win percentage? It can't be many. It also speaks to how down the ACC overall has been during Hubert's tenure.)

Rankings: Oh no.

Rankings are an imperfect pseudoscience, but if viewed at the larger level rather than the granular level they are very instructive of how a team is viewed (and, realistically, is doing) against the other teams in college basketball. As the AP poll is the considered the best poll, I've used those numbers for this data set.

In the 66 rankings that have been release in the Hubert Era, here is how Carolina has done...

Ranked 1-5: 9
Ranked 6-10: 13
Ranked 11-15: 3
Ranked 16-20: 6
Ranked 21-25: 3
Not Ranked: 32

Here are the ranked/not ranked numbers by year:

2021-2022: 3 ranked/16 not ranked
2022-2023: 5/14
2023-2024: 21/0
2024-2025: 5/2 (currently not ranked and received 9 "points" in the last poll when 25th had 175 points)

Yikes.

Carolina has not been ranked among the Top 25 teams in the nation for 48.4% of the polls released during Hubert's time as HC. (And given that we're barely receiving votes right now, unless something major changes it will probably be over 50% by the end of this season.)

By this metric, we've only had 1 good year under Hubert.

Of his 3 full seasons, we've spent more time not ranked than ranked in 2 of them and we seem headed for another such season in year 4.

In 3 of 4 seasons (including this one thus far), our highest ranking of the year was in the first or second poll and we then fell down through and out of the rankings thereafter.

In short, we've not been a consistently well-thought of - or an actually good team - for the majority of Hubert's time as HC. This shows that where we fall short isn't against the best of the best...we can't even consistently be considered among "the good teams" during Hubert's tenure.

For a program like Carolina Basketball - one of the bluest of blue bloods, likely the second most accomplished program in the history of college basketball - this is simply an unacceptable run of mediocrity for a HC. To not be ranked in the Top 25 for roughly half of the time that Hubert has been HC is nothing short of a failure.

It is the lack of consistently being "good" by this metric that has him on the hot seat and fans seriously wondering if we need to make a change. And those fans are right to do so. It is not outrageous that a program like Carolina's expect that we are ranked in the Top 25 a significant majority of the time, it is simply the historical performance of the program. To call fans with such an expectation "entitled" is simply ludicrous and anyone expressing such a view is completely silly and ignoring the history of Carolina Basketball (and I'll stop there so that nycfan won't have to chide me violating the decorum of the board).

The problem for Hubert Davis is that we've consistently been a mediocre to merely decent team for the majority of this tenure. And, if it doesn't change soon, the program will almost certainly have to look for someone new to be the HC.
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This is incredibly detailed, and should stand out, in a worrisome way, for any who reads it. Thank you!
 
Just as an aside, I think if the performance ever warranted a change of leadership, HD would step down on his own accord.
 
CRHeel94 said:
Just as an aside, I think if the performance ever warranted a change of leadership, HD would step down on his own accord.
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I agree with you (at least at a philosophical level), I fully believe Hubert Davis loves Carolina Basketball in a way that most of us can never imagine.

The question is going to be his idea of "warranted" versus that of the fan base.
 
CRHeel94 said:
Just as an aside, I think if the performance ever warranted a change of leadership, HD would step down on his own accord.
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I disagree. I think HD, like most coaches/players, won't give up, not until the game is over. He's going to keep fighting and keep trying to figure it out. Ergo, it's going to have to be Bubba who sounds the buzzer.
 
I think if he misses the tourney the next two years he would step down. Would qualifying, but missing the Sweet 16 both years be a failure? In a vacuum no, but this fanbase won't go for that. That's when it gets tricky.

Heck, I'm not sure he's a long haul type guy even if he's quasi successful.

HD is not like most coaches...think he's operating under different motivations.
 
CRHeel94 said:
I think if he misses the tourney the next two years he would step down. Would qualifying, but missing the Sweet 16 both years be a failure? In a vacuum no, but this fanbase won't go for that. That's when it gets tricky.

Heck, I'm not sure he's a long haul type guy even if he's quasi successful.

HD is not like most coaches...think he's operating under different motivations.
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I'm curious about your idea here and don't inherently disagree with you.

For this season and next, what do you think the minimum achievements would be that HD would deem "successful" enough that he'd not step down after next season?
 
duluoz said:
Bring in a roster full of dogs like that and I’ll live with whatever the record might be, from missing the tourney to winning a title. Because I know they’re going to leave it all out there. But what I absolutely can’t stand is soft. Guys who don’t compete for 40 minutes.
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We flew down for the ACC tourny in 2009, I was sitting beside an older gentleman and we were talking about the team and the past several years up to that point and Hansbrough in particular. At one point during a lull in the conversation he said (more to himself than to me) in a heartfelt tone "I've enjoyed these past four years"...
 
I just watched an interview on a link over at IC.

The guy was talking about getting bigs and said that if a big met HD with his hand palm up, looking for money, instead of palm to the side, looking to shake hands and join in a mission, then the staff moved on. That, if true, is something that is going to have to change.

From what I've read, I don't know of any specific big that would have made this a championship team, but it would be nice to not have to wonder why we missed out on those.
 
UNCatTech said:
I just watched an interview on a link over at IC.

The guy was talking about getting bigs and said that if a big met HD with his hand palm up, looking for money, instead of palm to the side, looking to shake hands and join in a mission, then the staff moved on. That, if true, is something that is going to have to change.

From what I've read, I don't know of any specific big that would have made this a championship team, but it would be nice to not have to wonder why we missed out on those.
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Do you have the link, or know who was giving the interview?

HD/staff are not shying away from making monetary offers to recruits. They met, and exceeded, several offers that were given by the schools which ended up landing the player.
 
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