United Healthcare CEO shot and killed | 1st Degree murder charges ordered dropped

superrific said:
That was not the issue I would have guessed to be your turning point. Personally, I'm more offended by torture. I doubt you are going to be writing a brief on that any time soon, but just saying.

I don't see the death penalty as about authoritarianism. I'm not sure the Soviet Union had a death penalty outside the military context. They didn't need one -- they just sent everyone to the gulag. I see authoritarianism as about due process.

I also don't see the death penalty as an important issue for me. In many ways, it feels like a trap. It's one of those issues where liberals are out of step with the population. We are going to do some things that don't have majority support; is this how we want to spend our political capital? What Zeldin just did at EPA will kill way more Americans than the death penalty ever could. Global warming will be the biggest killer in the history of the species.

I would easily trade a world without death penalty and a 2 degree rise in temps for one with death penalty and a 0.5 degree rise in temps.
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evangelical = baptist
 
evrheel said:
evangelical = baptist
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Oh that it were so simple. Not all Baptists are evangelical. I think the current evangelical movement is led more by these nondenominational prosperity gospel churches with no denominational infrastructure, with the only oversight being a hand-selected board who are in lockstep with the founder/preacher. The thing that separated Baptists from other mainline Protestant denominations was always more about governance than theology.
 
farce© said:
Oh that it were so simple. Not all Baptists are evangelical. I think the current evangelical movement is led more by these nondenominational prosperity gospel churches with no denominational infrastructure, with the only oversight being a hand-selected board who are in lockstep with the founder/preacher. The thing that separated Baptists from other mainline Protestant denominations was always more about governance than theology.
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Didn't say all baptists are evangelicals though most Baptists are considered to be evangelical, though their beliefs can vary due to the congregational governance system that gives autonomy to individual local Baptist churches.
 
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evrheel said:
. . ., though their beliefs can vary due to the congregational governance system that gives autonomy to individual local Baptist churches.
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And yet, if any local Southern Baptist Church attempts to live the teaching of Christ in their community outreach programs and fails to toe the line on whatever is the current right-wing dogma de jour, then they are summarily expelled from the Southern Baptist Convention.
 


“A New York judge on Tuesday dismissed two state murder charges against Luigi Mangione, who is accused of killing a UnitedHealthcare executive, saying the evidence prosecutors had presented to the grand jury was legally insufficient.

In bringing the two dismissed counts, first-degree and second-degree murder, prosecutors alleged Mangione committed the killing as part of an act of terrorism.

Mangione still faces a separate second-degree murder charge and other weapons-related charges in the state case.…”
 
nycfan said:


“A New York judge on Tuesday dismissed two state murder charges against Luigi Mangione, who is accused of killing a UnitedHealthcare executive, saying the evidence prosecutors had presented to the grand jury was legally insufficient.

In bringing the two dismissed counts, first-degree and second-degree murder, prosecutors alleged Mangione committed the killing as part of an act of terrorism.

Mangione still faces a separate second-degree murder charge and other weapons-related charges in the state case.…”
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Do you do criminal law in New york? Any idea why they wouldn't present it as premeditated murder as opposed to some terrorism charge? Can this be refiled?
 
gtyellowjacket said:
Do you do criminal law in New york? Any idea why they wouldn't present it as premeditated murder as opposed to some terrorism charge? Can this be refiled?
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I don’t do criminal law anywhere. I do recall reading at the time the charging was aggressive under the circumstances…
 
gtyellowjacket said:
I'm not a lawyer outside of dabbling a bit in bird law, and of course every state is different, but isn't first degree murder a different concept than capital punishment? In other words, can't you have first degree murder and not have capital punishment?
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Yes.

States such as NY, MA, VT, NH, RI, and ME have no death penalty and have 1st degree murder statutes….a 1st degree murder conviction might entail a life sentence with no parole.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
Do you do criminal law in New york? Any idea why they wouldn't present it as premeditated murder as opposed to some terrorism charge? Can this be refiled?
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Don’t ask me to explain because I don’t practice in NY, but my understanding is that they have unique definitions of first and second degree murder, and premeditated murder in itself does not constitute first degree murder.
 
Icky Mettle said:
Don’t ask me to explain because I don’t practice in NY, but my understanding is that they have unique definitions of first and second degree murder, and premeditated murder in itself does not constitute first degree murder.
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Looking at the statute, I think you're right. First degree in New York applies to certain things like killing a police officer or killing someone in the act of another crime like a robbery, but doesn't mention premeditation like might apply to the Luigi case. Neither does second degree murder. And also doesn't mention anything avian related which puts me well outside of my depth so I could be, and probably am, wrong.
 
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