United Healthcare CEO shot and killed | 1st Degree murder charges ordered dropped

evrheel said:
. . ., though their beliefs can vary due to the congregational governance system that gives autonomy to individual local Baptist churches.
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And yet, if any local Southern Baptist Church attempts to live the teaching of Christ in their community outreach programs and fails to toe the line on whatever is the current right-wing dogma de jour, then they are summarily expelled from the Southern Baptist Convention.
 


“A New York judge on Tuesday dismissed two state murder charges against Luigi Mangione, who is accused of killing a UnitedHealthcare executive, saying the evidence prosecutors had presented to the grand jury was legally insufficient.

In bringing the two dismissed counts, first-degree and second-degree murder, prosecutors alleged Mangione committed the killing as part of an act of terrorism.

Mangione still faces a separate second-degree murder charge and other weapons-related charges in the state case.…”
 
nycfan said:


“A New York judge on Tuesday dismissed two state murder charges against Luigi Mangione, who is accused of killing a UnitedHealthcare executive, saying the evidence prosecutors had presented to the grand jury was legally insufficient.

In bringing the two dismissed counts, first-degree and second-degree murder, prosecutors alleged Mangione committed the killing as part of an act of terrorism.

Mangione still faces a separate second-degree murder charge and other weapons-related charges in the state case.…”
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Do you do criminal law in New york? Any idea why they wouldn't present it as premeditated murder as opposed to some terrorism charge? Can this be refiled?
 
gtyellowjacket said:
Do you do criminal law in New york? Any idea why they wouldn't present it as premeditated murder as opposed to some terrorism charge? Can this be refiled?
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I don’t do criminal law anywhere. I do recall reading at the time the charging was aggressive under the circumstances…
 
gtyellowjacket said:
I'm not a lawyer outside of dabbling a bit in bird law, and of course every state is different, but isn't first degree murder a different concept than capital punishment? In other words, can't you have first degree murder and not have capital punishment?
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Yes.

States such as NY, MA, VT, NH, RI, and ME have no death penalty and have 1st degree murder statutes….a 1st degree murder conviction might entail a life sentence with no parole.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
Do you do criminal law in New york? Any idea why they wouldn't present it as premeditated murder as opposed to some terrorism charge? Can this be refiled?
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Don’t ask me to explain because I don’t practice in NY, but my understanding is that they have unique definitions of first and second degree murder, and premeditated murder in itself does not constitute first degree murder.
 
Icky Mettle said:
Don’t ask me to explain because I don’t practice in NY, but my understanding is that they have unique definitions of first and second degree murder, and premeditated murder in itself does not constitute first degree murder.
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Looking at the statute, I think you're right. First degree in New York applies to certain things like killing a police officer or killing someone in the act of another crime like a robbery, but doesn't mention premeditation like might apply to the Luigi case. Neither does second degree murder. And also doesn't mention anything avian related which puts me well outside of my depth so I could be, and probably am, wrong.
 
I think the key is that terrorism is a federal crime. Not sure what’s happening with the state charges, but 100% guaranteed Luigi will be held accountable on federal charges.
 
Google brings up the relevant statute, or in this case, a wikipedia to the relevant statute. First degree murder requires an intentional killing plus at least one of the following:
  • The victim was a police officer, peace officer, correctional employee, judge, or a criminal case witness
  • The murder was committed while the perpetrator was serving a life sentence
  • The murder was committed with torture of the victim
  • The murder was committed as an act of terrorism
  • The murder was committed during the commission or attempted commission of one of the felonies under New York's felony murder laws.
  • Murder committed for hire (with the charge applying to both the murderer and the person who paid the murderer)
They were going with the terrorism angle because it's the only way to get to first degree. I'm not sure about the other second-degree charge but he's still facing the ordinary second-degree homicide charge -- i.e. intentionally killing a guy.
 
lawtig02 said:
I think the key is that terrorism is a federal crime. Not sure what’s happening with the state charges, but 100% guaranteed Luigi will be held accountable on federal charges.
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In this case, the terrorism was one condition, and really the only semi plausible condition, of a first degree murder charge in the New York State charge. Not sure if there is a terrorism condition in the federal charge but that was unaffected by the ruling today.
 
lawtig02 said:
I think the key is that terrorism is a federal crime. Not sure what’s happening with the state charges, but 100% guaranteed Luigi will be held accountable on federal charges.
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They are going to try him as an ordinary murder, which legally speaking it was. He stalked a guy and shot him. That happens. Second degree. Life sentence. Eligible for parole in 25, I think. Thta's what wikipedia says.
 
Icky Mettle said:
Don’t ask me to explain because I don’t practice in NY, but my understanding is that they have unique definitions of first and second degree murder, and premeditated murder in itself does not constitute first degree murder.
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In NY, second degree murder is intentional murder without cause or killing due to depraved indifference or unintentionally or recklessly indirectly causing the death of someone (including a coconspirator) in the commission of a felony.

Aggravated murder is murder of law enforcement or firefighter or prison guard or killing a child under 14 along with depraved mistreatment or torture of the child.

First degree murder is intentional murder with an aggravating factor (the list is here: Article 125 | NYS Penal Law | Homicide Manslaughter Abortion ), including intentional and knowing killing of law enforcement, first responders etc while in commission of their duties, contract killings, witness murder or intimidation, directly causing death during commission of a felony, intentional torture murder, multiple/serial murder in a 2-year period, killing a judge and killing in furtherance of an act of terrorism.

The terrorism charge is where one of the charges failed today — judge indicating there was insufficient evidence to bring a terrorism charge under the statute (“… activities that
involve a violent act or acts dangerous to human life that are in
violation of the criminal laws of this state and are intended to:
(i) intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii) influence the policy of a unit of government by intimidation or coercion; or
(iii) affect the conduct of a unit of government by murder, assassination or kidnapping.“)
 
gtyellowjacket said:
In this case, the terrorism was one condition, and really the only semi plausible condition, of a first degree murder charge in the New York State charge. Not sure if there is a terrorism condition in the federal charge but that was unaffected by the ruling today.
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Of course it was unaffected. New York's state judiciary cannot adjudicate federal charges. The terrorism hook, I think, is the only way to get this to a federal crime at all. The terrorism charge is extremely weak.

Think about it this way. Suppose Luigi had been denied a reimbursement by United Heath. He's pissed off because he's out $2000 that he won't get back, so he buys a gun and hunts down the CEO. That's an ordinary murder. People get stalked and shot over money all the time. Or personal revenge. Or even to send a message to rival drug dealers or mafiosi. None of that is terrorism. It's just straight homicide.

If he had set an explosive device and blown it up from a distance when the exec was walking by, that would present better facts for terrorism but probably wouldn't get there.
 
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