US strikes Venezuela / Captures Maduro

[StrangePackage]

I believe the saying goes "reputations are hard earned and quickly lost". If you value your forum rep in any fashion, you may want to reconsider this argument.

Oh he's earned his reputation. This is just another brick in that wall.

 

[milom98]

I guess it depends on what qualifies as "attacking Venezuela". Is a 2 hour operation, to capture a drug cartel leader, "attacking Venezuela"?

Nah, just a little misdemeanor shoplifting with some military operations thrown in for some fireworks.

 

[rodoheel]

It was an operation, that included bombs, with the sole purpose to extracting a drug cartel leader.

Also, I just want to point out that this is explicitly at odds with the open statements of the Trump admin, who are saying that the point was for us to take control of Venezuela, put someone in charge who will do what we tell them, "run the country," and/or appropriate their natural resource wealth for ourselves.

 

[rodoheel]

Those bombings were to take out infrastructure to aid the operation.

And another word for bombing a foreign country to take out infrastructure might be...."attack"?

 

[RockyMtnHoo]

So after we’ve gained control of Venezuela oil, at what point does this Admin start using it as a colony to deport brown people to from this country?

 

[Callatoroy]

LMAOOOOOO.

this administration CERTAINLY isn't behaving as if russia is an adversary in literally almost all other matters. we're letting them run riot in europe.

Disagree. But none of that impacts the reality that russia or china can't be allowed to access the oil in Ven. or establish a base.

 

[BlooVooDoo]

Oh he's earned his reputation. This is just another brick in that wall.

At this point he’s gilding the lily.

 

[BlooVooDoo]

Disagree. But none of that impacts the reality that russia or china can't be allowed to access the oil in Ven. or establish a base.

So, sovereign governments can’t choose for themselves with which countries they will associate?

 

[finesse]

I believe the saying goes "reputations are hard earned and quickly lost". If you value your forum rep in any fashion, you may want to reconsider this argument.

Way, way too late for that.

 

[WaynetheDrain]

It's about OIL and MINERALS, not removing the COMMUNISTS.

I believe I said there wasn't going to be a war between the US and Venezuela.

I don't consider the uneventful, largely resistence-free capturing of Maduro, in an operation that took 2 hours, to be war.

Spin, baby, spin.

1. We kidnapped and arrested the leader of a foreign country.

2. We announced to the world, “We run this country now.”

3. We make clear our plan to take their natural resources for our own.

That’s called an act of war.

 

[Duke Mu]

Even if true, it's still not war.

Didn't say it was. However, if we put boots on the ground, there will be an insurgency. It's highly, highly unlikely, in fact ludicrous, that we can control a country of 30M twice the size of California from an aircraft carrier.

"Mission Accomplished."

 

[Callatoroy]

So, sovereign governments can’t choose for themselves with which countries they will associate?

Certainly they can. But when it affects the national security of the US, and the dictator of that country is also an indicted criminal in the US, the US can decide to act accordingly and it did. As I said, I have no qualms about what and how the US acted but do have a concern about what happens going forward.

 

[Duke Mu]

Spin, baby, spin.

1. We kidnapped and arrested the leader of a foreign country.

2. We announced to the world, “We run this country now.”

3. We make clear our plan to take their natural resources for our own.

That’s called an act of war.

"External coup!"

If someone punches you is that an attack? How long would that take?

It was an "External Coup!" lol

 

[Duke Mu]

Certainly they can. But when it affects the national security of the US, and the dictator of that country is also an indicted criminal in the US, the US can decide to act accordingly and it did. As I said, I have no qualms about what and how the US acted but do have a concern about what happens going forward.

Communist Venezuela was a pain in the @$$ but not a direct threat to the US. Drugs sold by Venezuelans went to Europe.
I don't have regrets on the extraction, but we have NO PLAN...and communists are still the leaders.

 

[Callatoroy]

Didn't say it was. However, if we put boots on the ground, there will be an insurgency. It's highly, highly unlikely, in fact ludicrous, that we can control a country of 30M twice the size of California from an aircraft carrier.

"Mission Accomplished."

What leads you to think we will insert ground troops? I think trump is taking steps to avoid that by leaving the existing regime in place to maintain control. Just insisting on certain conditions that appear to be logical.

 

[heelinhell]

A foreign country parks an armada off the East Coast, sends 150 war planes to Washington DC, blows up buildings, cuts power to tens of thousands in the region, kills 40-80 people on American soil (some Americans and some mercenary security services from let’s say Honduras) and takes Trump and Melania into custody to try in that country’s courts under that country’s laws. Has America been attacked?

I would say the first part of your post constitutes an attack, but if Trump and Melania were taken into custody and tried in that country's courts, then I would have to say that country liberated America

 

[Callatoroy]

Communist Venezuela was a pain in the @$$ but not a direct threat to the US. Drugs sold by Venezuelans went to Europe.
I don't have regrets on the extraction, but we have NO PLAN...and communists are still the leaders.

I think the PLAN is to leave the communists in place to maintain order. Don't think it was ever about regime change from a military standpoint. Think it was about removing madura and preventing russia and china from setting up shop and accessing oil. As long as Ven clamps down on drugs / gangs / sending the wrong people here and doesn't allow russia / china to get hands on the oil, trump doesn't care what they do internally. I'm sure he would prefer a democratic Ven, but don't think he is willing to go much further in terms of military actions to achieve that. I believe he intends to use the money generated from the oil to rebuild Ven's economy and achieve democracy through a prosperous Ven.

 

[Duke Mu]

What leads you to think we will insert ground troops? I think trump is taking steps to avoid that by leaving the existing regime in place to maintain control. Just insisting on certain conditions that appear to be logical.

Sure, the Communists are still in control. What makes you believe that communists still loyal to Maduro and Rodriguez and insurgents are just going to hand over their oil and minerals? "You and what Army?" CEOs aren't going to risk their talent in an unstable country. You must be out of your mind. lol

 

[Paine]

You keepCommunist Venezuela was a pain in the @$$ but not a direct threat to the US. Drugs sold by Venezuelans went to Europe.
I don't have regrets on the extraction, but we have NO PLAN...and communists are still the leaders.

 

[Duke Mu]

I think the PLAN is to leave the communists in place to maintain order. Don't think it was ever about regime change from a military standpoint. Think it was about removing madura and preventing russia and china from setting up shop and accessing oil. As long as Ven clamps down on drugs / gangs / sending the wrong people here and doesn't allow russia / china to get hands on the oil, trump doesn't care what they do internally. I'm sure he would prefer a democratic Ven, but don't think he is willing to go much further in terms of military actions to achieve that. I believe he intends to use the money generated from the oil to rebuild Ven's economy and achieve democracy through a prosperous Ven.

Russia doesn't have the $$ to rebuild Venezuela's sour crude infrastructure. There are Iranians there as consultants. Oil remains nationalized.

Trump isn't exactly strategic in this. He's not a Nixon. He's an idiot, slurring words written for him. He didn't pick Machado because she didn't hand over her Nobel Peace Prize.