USA impacts of Israel-Hamas war

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lawtig02 said:
Oh well. Twenty days is more than we can usually count on from Bibi. I guess Trump has another war to stop now.


Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Tuesday ordered the Israeli military to carry out “immediate, powerful” strikes in Gaza after Israel accused Hamas of violating the US-brokered ceasefire deal and staging the discovery of a deceased hostage.

“At the conclusion of the security consultations, Prime Minister Netanyahu instructed the military echelon to carry out immediate, powerful strikes in the Gaza Strip,” the office of the Prime Minister said in a short statement. The US was notified of the decision to carry out strikes in Gaza, a US official told CNN.

A military official said Hamas had attacked Israeli troops east of the so-called yellow line, which separates Israeli-occupied Gaza from the remainder of the territory.

Defense Minister Israel Katz said Hamas would pay a “heavy price” for the attack on Israel Defense Forces (IDF) soldiers and vowed that Israel would respond “with great force.”
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"Oh well. Twenty days is more than we can usually count on from Bibi."

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lawtig02 said:
Without diminishing what he accomplished in his first two years, Biden’s (1) decision to run again, and (2) lack of moral authority regarding Bibi and the fanatics in Israel make him a failed president in my mind. Immeasurably better than Trump, but a shadow of what he could have been.
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I hate to admit it-but I support your statement
 
lawtig02 said:
Without diminishing what he accomplished in his first two years, Biden’s (1) decision to run again, and (2) lack of moral authority regarding Bibi and the fanatics in Israel make him a failed president in my mind. Immeasurably better than Trump, but a shadow of what he could have been.
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What would it mean for Biden to exercise is moral authority as it relates to Israel's war with Hamas? Does That mean he would take the side of people who:

  • Celebrate the death of civilians, literally dancing in the streets in celebration of the death of civilians?
  • Revel in the suffering of hostages and prisoners of war, parading them in front of cheering mobs and often allow them to be assaulted, raped and murdered.
  • Proudly using innocent civilians as human shields, firing rockets from schools, hospitals, mosques and apartment buildings?
In other words, would exercising moral authority mean taking the side of those who generally revel in war crimes and proudly broadcast their savagery for the world to see?

Do I have that right?
 
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ZenMode said:
What would it mean for Biden to exercise is moral authority as it relates to Israel's war with Hamas? Does That mean he would take the side of people who:

  • Celebrate the death of civilians, literally dancing in the streets in celebration of the death of civilians?
  • Revel in the suffering of hostages and prisoners of war, parading them in front of cheering mobs and often allow them to be assaulted, raped and murdered.
In other words, would exercising moral authority mean taking the side of those who generally revel in war crimes and proudly broadcast their savagery for the world to see?

Do I have that right?
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Simple minds view everything through a binary lens. It is not “siding” with Hamas to make it clear to Bibi we will not tolerate war crimes and genocide, even by our supposed allies, and any such actions will result in no further military support for Israel and sanctions against the regime. Bibi had a multitude of options. He chose the least legal, and certainly the least moral, one. We could have done far more to oppose that, while also working with Israel to undermine Hamas, bring the hostages back much earlier, and reduce the chances another 10/7 occurs in the future.
 
lawtig02 said:
Simple minds view everything through a binary lens. It is not “siding” with Hamas to make it clear to Bibi we will not tolerate war crimes and genocide, even by our supposed allies, and any such actions will result in no further military support for Israel and sanctions against the regime.
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There will always be war crimes in every war. There will be soldiers that make mistakes or are simply bad people. Israel is in the impossible situation of fighting against people who will use civilians, women and children not only as human shields but as weapons. Israel killed three of their own hostages because they couldn't trust that the people asking for help were not actually bombs disguised as civilians.

Also, Israel is not committing genocide. If they wanted to, they have the military capability to wipe Gaza off the face of the Earth and kill every single civilian within Gaza. That isn't their intention now and has never been their intention.

On October 7, 2021, Hamas fighters killed about 1,000 civilians in 8 hours, using nothing but handheld guns and knives. If they maintained that rate of murder, that would be 3,000 per day and would total just over 2 million in 2 years since the war started.

Israel, an actual military, with actual military weapons, has killed (last I saw) 74,000 in 2 years.

There is no option of peace with jihadist. That is a pipe dream.
 
The Biden administration should have pushed harder, MUCH harder to use their leverage to convince Israel to conduct this war in a more ethical manner. Yes, there would still be civilians killed and horrible incidents, but there needed to be a bigger attempt to limit those.

And of course Israel could have kept ignoring Biden (as they basically did), but given the reporting it appears the Biden team did not give this the full effort...

All this also comes with fact that the Trump administration was encouraging even more Israeli indiscriminate military actions than Biden was ignoring, so yeah, no shining knights in this deal
 
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