Why do we cater to the idea of a soul?

[heelinhell]

Kind of unexpectedly this podcast delves, at least tangentially, on this topic.

In Our Time - Empiricism - BBC Sounds

Melvyn Bragg examines the 17th century idea that all knowledge arises from experience.

www.bbc.co.uk

I once visited David Hume's grave...

 

[ChapelHillSooner]

It sounds like what you're really struggling with is hard solipsism not philosophy of consciousness, maybe?

We don't need certainty to make progress in understanding reality.

That is a consequence of what I am arguing but it’s inextricably tied to questions around consciousness.

But, no, solipsism isn’t my primary argument. It’s just a consequence of my argument. Also to be clear, while I can’t prove other minds exist, I firmly believe that they do.

Read David Chalmers. He explains my views perfectly.

 

[ChapelHillSooner]

.

I don't think such a study is possible. That's the great debate about consciousness: is it the result of brain functionality or is the brain just a gateway to experiencing consciousness that is always present.

I think the last sentence expresses something I have tried to express better than I have done.

How we experience consciousness is tied to how our brain works. Our experience is completely controlled by the circuitry of our brain. I don’t at all doubt that that is true.

What I doubt is that via matter and energy interactions there can be a true experience rather than just a simulation of one.

 

[ChapelHillSooner]

The mention of the After Life Japanese movie interested me. I will have to check that out.

I have often asked people if they could relive their best day over and over for eternity, if they would choose to do so. Many recoil at the thought. Even when I explain to them that boredom is not an issue because you have no idea you are reliving that moment over and over and each day happens as if you are experiencing it for the first time, they still don’t like it.

I would be perfectly happy reliving my best day over and over.

The only problem is that I would want to choose a day where all of my closest loved ones were there but that is impossible as my mom died while my wife was pregnant with my son.

 

[ZenMode]

I think the last sentence expresses something I have tried to express better than I have done.

How we experience consciousness is tied to how our brain works. Our experience is completely controlled by the circuitry of our brain. I don’t at all doubt that that is true.

What I doubt is that via matter and energy interactions there can be a true experience rather than just a simulation of one.

What do you mean by "true experience"? Is that a reference to things like the fact that humans can't see specific light frequencies that other animals can, so we aren't truly experiencing reality.

 

[Centerpiece]

I feel ya xCainx. You too Sooner.

Woke up this morning, Put on my slippers
Walked in the kitchen and died
And oh what a feeling When my soul went thru the ceiling
And on up into heaven I did ride.

When I got there they did say John, it happened this a'way
You slipped upon the floor And hit your head
And all the angels say Just before you passed away
These were the very last words That you said:

Please don't bury me Down in the cold cold ground
No, I'd druther have 'em cut me up And pass me all around
Throw my brain in a hurricane And the blind can have my eyes
And the deaf can take both of my ears If they don't mind the size.

Give my stomach to Milwaukee If they run out of beer
Put my socks in a cedar box Just get 'em out of here
Venus de Milo can have my arms Look out! I've got your nose
Sell my heart to the junkman And give my love to Rose

Give my feet to the footloose Careless, fancy free
Give my knees to the needy Don't pull that stuff on me
Hand me down my walking cane It's a sin to tell a lie
Send my mouth way down south And kiss my ass goodbye

But please don't bury me Down in that cold cold ground
No, I'd druther have 'em cut me up And pass me all around
Throw my brain in a hurricane And the blind can have my eyes
And the deaf can take both of my ears If they don't mind the size

 

[breepf]

I didn't really know that...that's super interesting. Thanks bree

This idea of faith-as-action is also evident insofar as the Jewish law follows the model of a king-vassal treaty. In other words, the vassal is not pledging to believe in the king, but to hold up his end of the bargain. FWIW, Jon Levenson's book on love in the Hebrew Bible has a lot of cool stuff about king-vassal treaties.

 

[ChapelHillSooner]

What do you mean by "true experience"? Is that a reference to things like the fact that humans can't see specific light frequencies that other animals can, so we aren't truly experiencing reality.

Any type of subjective experience.

 

[ZenMode]

Any type of subjective experience.

Gotcha. I agree. We're born with what is essentially a brain in a vat and all of the sculpting of the brain comes via our senses, but it is indeed subjective based on a number of factors.

 

[Milk and Cookies]

That is a consequence of what I am arguing but it’s inextricably tied to questions around consciousness.

But, no, solipsism isn’t my primary argument. It’s just a consequence of my argument. Also to be clear, while I can’t prove other minds exist, I firmly believe that they do.

Read David Chalmers. He explains my views perfectly.

Ok I think I better understand your position. You're still a naturalist, you just think the foundation of consciousness is an undiscovered fundamental force of nature. Kind of like when people tried to explain electricity before the discovery of electromagnetism. But you don't believe is a soul per se. Is that close?

I think you used the word entity when describing consciousness earlier and I think that threw me down a rabbit hole.

 

[ChapelHillSooner]

Ok I think I better understand your position. You're still a naturalist, you just think the foundation of consciousness is an undiscovered fundamental force of nature. Kind of like when people tried to explain electricity before the discovery of electromagnetism. But you don't believe is a soul per se. Is that close?

I think you used the word entity when describing consciousness earlier and I think that threw me down a rabbit hole.

I think that that is really close. I am not saying I do or do not believe in a soul. I just don't know. But I am not a 100% materialist.

My problem with the materialism search for the root of consciousness is that I just don't see a path for that to be successful. We can narrow it down to a part of the brain and maybe even map the circuitry that is required to bring about consciousness but that seems like narrowing the scope without answering the big question.

Then you can go back to solipism. If I can't be sure that another person truly has consciousness but can only infer it from my own experience, how can I really say that consciousness does or does not arise from material interactions? Even in my own consciousness, my knowledge of having had it in the past is only because of memories that I can retrieve. As I said in my first post here, that itself could be purely an illusion.

I would say I am a dualist but my dualism is rooted in pretty strong materialism.