2024 Presidential Election | ELECTION DAY 2024

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Paine said:
The things you say about Maddow are true. She represents the core liberal constituency of the Democratic Party. That’s a very mainstream position to hold.

In my mind, a liberal on a corporate owned TV network who is a mouth piece for a liberal, corporate/business friendly party isn’t far left under any definition.

Left of center? Sure.
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This is correct, depending on what you mean by center. I would argue that the current Dem party isn't really left of center at all, except in the trivial sense of being more liberal on average than the average voter. The Dems today are to the right of the 1990s GOP on a couple of issues, and not really particularly progressive on any that I can think of. If you look at the last half century of American politics, Dems are considerably closer to Reagan than, say, Carter. Well, maybe not Reagan. But definitely Bush 41.
 
MendotoManteo said:
Given that no one actually on the far left thinks that Rachel Maddow - or MsNBC, a corporate news outlet, for that matter - is "far left," it seems highly unlikely that she would be far left.

That and the fact that the rest of us have sentience with which we can observe fact and draw logical conclusions. And thus arrive at the position that Rachel Maddow is clearly not far left.
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Obviously, you and Heelyeah have a very different definition of “far left”. Given that it is a subjective label, I doubt this argument advances the ball very much.
 
Paine said:
I think Bernie is far left for an American politician, for sure. The point I was making about him not being far left is more so in comparison to international politics. I think I was also referencing the universal popularity of a lot of his positions.

The things you say about Maddow are true. She represents the core liberal constituency of the Democratic Party. That’s a very mainstream position to hold.

In my mind, a liberal on a corporate owned TV network who is a mouth piece for a liberal, corporate/business friendly party isn’t far left under any definition.

Left of center? Sure.
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Regarding Maddow and the like, I think many on the right conflate staunch party support for Democrats with ideological extremeness. Likely the result of ignorance vis-a-vis the political ideological spectrum as well as right wing media telling them that everyone to the left of the House Freedom Caucus is dangerous and extreme.
 
Far Left = communist

Slightly less Far Left = socialist

Bernie and AOC are to the right of socialist. Pretty certain they call themselves Social Democrats.

Elizabeth Warren is to their right. Warren would be a slightly left centrist in Europe.

Obama is to her right. Joe Biden has governed more boldly and possibly slightly to Obama’s left by a smidge. They’re both American Centrists.

Obama, Biden, Schumer, and Harris would be center-right in Europe.

Trump, Vance, McConnell, Mike Johnson, Cruz, Rubio, Tillis, Tim Moore, Phil Berger, DeSantis, Haley, etc. would be in far-right parties in Europe.
 
lightbluenc said:
According to Pew Research, Hillary got 81% of black men, 65% of Hispanic men, 32% of white men.

Curious where Harris stands and will stand with each of those.
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From a column in Slate (Mark Joseph Stern)

Adjusting each candidate’s vote share by demographic, as FiveThirtyEight allows, illustrates the problem for Republicans: Bumping up minority support for Trump does shockingly little to improve his odds. My former colleague Matt Yglesias has pointed out, for example, that Trump could improve 10 points with Hispanic voters and 20 points with Black Americans—but still lose to Harris if he does just 2 points worse with white people. Even if Trump does exponentially better with Hispanic voters than he did in 2020, he’ll lose if Harris shaves off a few points among whites. The Electoral College bias is exacerbated by the fact that white people still make up a sizable majority of the country. So Republican gains among nonwhites don’t count for much, especially when they’re offset by even minor Democratic gains among whites.
 
HeelYeah2012 said:
MSNBC is just as in the tank for the Democrats as Fox is for Republicans.
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This simply isn't true. Media bias rankings consistently show that Fox's TV programming is both (1) more partisan, and (2) less fact-based than MSNBC programming. You can look for yourself:

adfontesmedia.com

Interactive Media Bias Chart | Ad Fontes Media

The Interactive Media Bias Chart offers the ability to search from among the thousands of rated web/print, TV and podcast sources.
adfontesmedia.com adfontesmedia.com

Compare where Maddow's show is versus programs like Fox & Friends, Jesse Waters' show, and Laura Ingraham's show. You will see that they generally skew considerably more partisan and considerably less fact-based. And that is absolutely confirmed by the "eye test" when you watch these programs. You will routinely see Fox hosts and guests calling Trump the best, the greatest, the most perfect, etc. You do not see MSNBC or anyone else say these things about Harris and Democrats.

Is MSNBC's news coverage slanted to favor liberal perspectives? Yes, it is; it is the furthest left of any cable news network in terms of its coverage. But are they "in the tank" for democrats like Fox is for Republicans generally, and especially Trump? Objectively, they absolutely are not.
 
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Illithor said:
Trump: I will protect Black jobs from the impacts of mass illegal immigration.
Media: RACIST!!!!!!
Kamala: To win back black voters, I'm proposing free money and drugs.
Media: SO INCLUSIVE!!!!
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Leaving aside the unseriousness of this post, this is an objectively funny criticism, since Trump has spent the last few weeks on the campaign trail throwing out promises of random tax cuts for random groups of people like he's running for class president promising to make the vending machines free.
 
Illithor said:
Trump: I will protect Black jobs from the impacts of mass illegal immigration.
Media: RACIST!!!!!!
Kamala: To win back black voters, I'm proposing free money and drugs.
Media: SO INCLUSIVE!!!!

69% of people don't trust the media.
31% of people are retarded.
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I will only say this once. Please never, ever use the final word of your post ever again. It is not a word for civilized discussion or debate.
 
Rock said:
No one had alerted me but I just saw it and removed his posts. It's horrible anyway but as a teacher with numerous students of varying ability, it makes me extra angry.
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Not sure if you banned the poster, and I'm not a huge fan of doing that, but I have a feeling that's not the last time we'd hear objectively reprehensible things from him.
 
HeelYeah2012 said:
When talking about how far a dollar stretches, I think that term is generally used to talk about the net impact of how much money someone is making less what they’re spending on goods. In other words, it encompasses both wage growth and inflation. Otherwise yes you’d be right that taken literally, any 0.1% inflation would make you say your dollar “stretched further” under the predecessor.

To put it a different way - more middle class families felt they were getting ahead under Trump than they do under the current administration.

Obviously you are smart enough to know that just because inflation has now normalized a bit, people’s salaries haven’t caught up to the massive inflation we were seeing a couple years ago. Current year over year inflation might be 2-3% but it’s 2-3% on top of a crazy high number that was hurting a lot of people who live paycheck to paycheck. The 3-4 year percentage price increases are still crazy, especially for groceries.

And that’s why Trump still has a puncher’s chance to win.
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The economy, like a battleship, does not turn on a dime. Just like it can take miles for a battleship to turn, it can take a year or two for an economy to change (for better or for worse). Trump's absolutely awful handling of the pandemic was not felt immediately during COVID. It took some time for all that to play out, and you know that Biden inherited an absolute mess.

If your point is that the average voter is too stupid to understand this, I agree. But the metrics out there show that the economy now is better than when Trump left office. And if you factor in the EFFECTS of Trump going into 2021 (and even 2022), Biden has done an outstanding job of turning around the economy.

If Trump is elected and implements his policies, the fear is that some of the effects may not be felt until almost the next election. And then the Democrats will, once again, have to clean up a Pub's mess and yet still get all the blame for the economy.
 
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