2024 Presidential Election | ELECTION DAY 2024

[heelinhell]

This is near exactly why I’ve stated numerous times that callayeahs are just too cowardly to openly support the shit they actually like about being maga. They oft claim inflation!!! Prices!!!! Economy!!!! Then blankly stare at hard data showing historically high 401ks, an economy that’s blistering the rest of the planet, and consumer confidences normalizing, after the world’s greatest economic recovery folllowing the worst pandemic since 1918.

It’s not the economy for them. It never has been.

I think you are right...

GQPers arguing that it's all about the economy that motivates their votes for Trump is a cover story to mask what I call their soft bigotry.

Soft bigots don't use the N word( in public ) or fly the Confederate flag, but soft bigots do believe non-white folks are inferior. Soft bigots do believe that non-white folks are a drain on our resources and add nothing to society. Soft bigots have no problem with Trump demonizing non-white folks.

If triple digit IQ GQPers express concern about the non-existent threat of immigrants entering the country or the non-existent high crime rate among immigrants or the transgenders are corrupting society and ruining sports, then consider them soft bigots who are not all that worried about their pocketbook so much as they are worried about an increasingly diverse America.

 

[superrific]

I loved those ads when I saw them but thought they were a little hyperbolic. Damn if the GOP isn’t responding with, “Hell yeah husbands should control their wives’ votes!”

You wanted them to run during NFL games. I understand why you might not think about intimate partner abuse that often, but it's a more significant issue than you think (I suspect). And I'm not only talking about violence. There are other forms of domestic abuse.

I think this is a huge story that isn't being talked about enough, and I'll tell you why: it's not been captured in the polls. The polls all say it's a tied race. Fine. Maybe they are wrong, but we don't know which direction, so take them at face value for now. A lot of things like poor minority support for Kamala, Arabs who don't want to vote for a Dem -- these effects have already been captured.

But conservative women being afraid of their husbands over voting for Kamala? That is unlikely to be captured in the polls, or at least not fully captured. A women who is worried about their vote being discovered probably isn't going to answer poll questions honestly if their husbands are anywhere in the vicinity. She might tell the pollster Trump, and then vote for Kamala.

How big is this group? Hard to say, of course, but I've been on this story for over a week. The reason that I started to dig on it was the turnout pattern in Arizona. The gender gap between male and female voting has long been more of a Dem phenomenon. That's not surprising, given that Dems are less likely to have traditional views about how married people should behave. But this year, there was a gender gap between Republican women and men. So why? Maybe just a coincidence. Or maybe conservative wives were voting without their husbands present. Again, if 2% of conservative women vote Kamala after telling pollsters they are voting Trump, that's big in a tight election.

Remember that victims of intimate partner violence are often easily intimidated. In large measure, intimidation is the whole point. There are some sickos who like to take out their frustrations on their wives, but I doubt many enjoy the process of the beating. But they sure do like the control. And the intimidation. So a woman who goes to vote with her husband -- at the very least, she's going to be cajoled. She might be afraid that he will find a way to see what she's doing. Again, if you've been beaten before, and fear being beaten again -- is a vote really worth the risk? A vote that almost certainly will not affect the election? But even better is voting by yourself. Early.

P.S. I don't mean easily as a derogatory term, as if they are weak people. I just mean they are sensitive, given their life experience.

 

[superrific]

Yeah, you've made it clear you care far more about results (as they impact you, not others) than character. I think, and hope, you'll change your view on that as you get older and wiser. We'll be here when you do.

I don't think it's even about "character" as that term is often used. Honestly, I couldn't give a fuck about Trump cheating on his wives. His charity fraud? Eh.

What it's about is temperament. This is a person who thinks of himself as the foremost expert about everything. He is also a person who refuses to admit mistakes, and likes to double down rather that back down. A person who prides himself on hitting back. A person whose response to unfavorable developments is to deny reality.

In other words, a guy who will put in tariffs because he thinks they are great. Then when other countries respond, he will get pissed and raise the tariffs even more. Then when inflation starts pummeling the country and the economy shrinks, he will assume the tariffs haven't worked yet, and put in more tariffs.

 

[nycfan]

You wanted them to run during NFL games. I understand why you might not think about intimate partner abuse that often, but it's a more significant issue than you think (I suspect). And I'm not only talking about violence. There are other forms of domestic abuse.

I think this is a huge story that isn't being talked about enough, and I'll tell you why: it's not been captured in the polls. The polls all say it's a tied race. Fine. Maybe they are wrong, but we don't know which direction, so take them at face value for now. A lot of things like poor minority support for Kamala, Arabs who don't want to vote for a Dem -- these effects have already been captured.

But conservative women being afraid of their husbands over voting for Kamala? That is unlikely to be captured in the polls, or at least not fully captured. A women who is worried about their vote being discovered probably isn't going to answer poll questions honestly if their husbands are anywhere in the vicinity. She might tell the pollster Trump, and then vote for Kamala.

How big is this group? Hard to say, of course, but I've been on this story for over a week. The reason that I started to dig on it was the turnout pattern in Arizona. The gender gap between male and female voting has long been more of a Dem phenomenon. That's not surprising, given that Dems are less likely to have traditional views about how married people should behave. But this year, there was a gender gap between Republican women and men. So why? Maybe just a coincidence. Or maybe conservative wives were voting without their husbands present. Again, if 2% of conservative women vote Kamala after telling pollsters they are voting Trump, that's big in a tight election.

Remember that victims of intimate partner violence are often easily intimidated. In large measure, intimidation is the whole point. There are some sickos who like to take out their frustrations on their wives, but I doubt many enjoy the process of the beating. But they sure do like the control. And the intimidation. So a woman who goes to vote with her husband -- at the very least, she's going to be cajoled. She might be afraid that he will find a way to see what she's doing. Again, if you've been beaten before, and fear being beaten again -- is a vote really worth the risk? A vote that almost certainly will not affect the election? But even better is voting by yourself. Early.

P.S. I don't mean easily as a derogatory term, as if they are weak people. I just mean they are sensitive, given their life experience.

That was 2016, I believe. Not suggesting Trump abuses Melania — she seems perfectly awful in her own right. Just the conversation reminded me of this photo.

With our voting setup in my county, it would be very hard for a woman to keep her husband from seeing her voting choice if they went together. You fill in the bubble paper at a table that is private but then carry it across the gym and feed it into the tabulator. If you felt at risk if your husband disapproved of your vote, I don’t think you would cross him to vote against his wishes in our particular setup.

 

[lawtig02]

You wanted them to run during NFL games. I understand why you might not think about intimate partner abuse that often, but it's a more significant issue than you think (I suspect). And I'm not only talking about violence. There are other forms of domestic abuse.

I think this is a huge story that isn't being talked about enough, and I'll tell you why: it's not been captured in the polls. The polls all say it's a tied race. Fine. Maybe they are wrong, but we don't know which direction, so take them at face value for now. A lot of things like poor minority support for Kamala, Arabs who don't want to vote for a Dem -- these effects have already been captured.

But conservative women being afraid of their husbands over voting for Kamala? That is unlikely to be captured in the polls, or at least not fully captured. A women who is worried about their vote being discovered probably isn't going to answer poll questions honestly if their husbands are anywhere in the vicinity. She might tell the pollster Trump, and then vote for Kamala.

How big is this group? Hard to say, of course, but I've been on this story for over a week. The reason that I started to dig on it was the turnout pattern in Arizona. The gender gap between male and female voting has long been more of a Dem phenomenon. That's not surprising, given that Dems are less likely to have traditional views about how married people should behave. But this year, there was a gender gap between Republican women and men. So why? Maybe just a coincidence. Or maybe conservative wives were voting without their husbands present. Again, if 2% of conservative women vote Kamala after telling pollsters they are voting Trump, that's big in a tight election.

Remember that victims of intimate partner violence are often easily intimidated. In large measure, intimidation is the whole point. There are some sickos who like to take out their frustrations on their wives, but I doubt many enjoy the process of the beating. But they sure do like the control. And the intimidation. So a woman who goes to vote with her husband -- at the very least, she's going to be cajoled. She might be afraid that he will find a way to see what she's doing. Again, if you've been beaten before, and fear being beaten again -- is a vote really worth the risk? A vote that almost certainly will not affect the election? But even better is voting by yourself. Early.

P.S. I don't mean easily as a derogatory term, as if they are weak people. I just mean they are sensitive, given their life experience.

So, I'll start with a confession. When I made that comment about NFL games, it was off the cuff. I had not thought much about it. I'm glad you responded as you did.

After thinking about it more, though, I actually stand by my initial response. I do a lot of work with DV victims. One of the things I've learned is that it does very little good to "hide" the conversation, including from the abusers. Men who abuse women (physically or mentally/emotionally) are watching everything. They know what their partners are doing. If you try to avoid them, you generally just prolong the abuse. To use a different comparison, the NFL is great about breast cancer awareness. I fully endorse that. Just imagine, though, if the league devoted the same attention and resources to DV prevention. Millions of women watch NFL games every week. But abusive men also watch NFL games every week. What if they were getting a consistent message from the league they cherish that abuse of women is 100%, unequivocally, in every scenario, out of bounds?

When I proposed airing that ad on NFL games, I think I suggested it as a thumb in the eye of conservative men. That was wrong. That shouldn't be the goal of political campaigning. But I do think those ads would be powerful on the NFL platform. And if it causes men to get mad at the women they're abusing, that would be terrible. But those women will be abused regardless, and I'm all in favor of doing whatever we can to create opportunities to get women out of abusive situations as quickly as we can.

As for your point relating to the election, I 100% agree. I have a feeling the post mortem after Kamala wins will focus on three things.

1. Women led the way, and pre-election polls substantially underestimated women's support for Kamala.
2. Black Americans will vote for Kamala at least at 2020 levels, and likely even higher.
3. The gradual urbanization and education (at the college level) of Americans is putting the GOP in a tighter and tighter bind. Fascistic populism is a desperate hail Mary end game for a dying movement, not a recipe for future success.

 

[superrific]

That was 2016, I believe. Not suggesting Trump abuses Melania — she seems perfectly awful in her own right. Just the conversation reminded me of this photo.

With our voting setup in my county, it would be very hard for a woman to keep her husband from seeing her voting choice if they went together. You fill in the bubble paper at a table that is private but then carry it across the gym and feed it into the tabulator. If you felt at risk if your husband disapproved of your vote, I don’t think you would cross him to vote against his wishes in our particular setup.

Two things are happening at the same time in NC. Republicans have been pulling away in early voting. What was once tied is now a 4+ lead. What has also been happening at the same time is the gender gap is growing. Not by all that much, but unless there's some weird thing going on where Dem women started turning out in much greater numbers than Dem men last week but not before, Republican women are outvoting Republican men.

This is a story that has gotten some attention because a) Dobbs; and b) the gender gap is so big that people are looking at gender dynamics in politics. But it is surely not a new problem. I wonder how many votes for Trump in 16/20 were cast by women afraid of their husbands.

 

[ChapelHillSooner]

That was 2016, I believe. Not suggesting Trump abuses Melania — she seems perfectly awful in her own right. Just the conversation reminded me of this photo.

With our voting setup in my county, it would be very hard for a woman to keep her husband from seeing her voting choice if they went together. You fill in the bubble paper at a table that is private but then carry it across the gym and feed it into the tabulator. If you felt at risk if your husband disapproved of your vote, I don’t think you would cross him to vote against his wishes in our particular setup.

To play devil's advocate, I looked up that video and watched it over and over and I don't know if he was trying to see her ballot. It was a quick glance and in real time he appeared to be looking towards her to see if she was done.

Given, the still image sure looks like he was trying to look at her ballot.

 

[superrific]

So, I'll start with a confession. When I made that comment about NFL games, it was off the cuff. I had not thought much about it. I'm glad you responded as you did.

After thinking about it more, though, I actually stand by my initial response. I do a lot of work with DV victims. One of the things I've learned is that it does very little good to "hide" the conversation, including from the abusers. Men who abuse women (physically or mentally/emotionally) are watching everything. They know what their partners are doing. If you try to avoid them, you generally just prolong the abuse. To use a different comparison, the NFL is great about breast cancer awareness. I fully endorse that. Just imagine, though, if the league devoted the same attention and resources to DV prevention. Millions of women watch NFL games every week. But abusive men also watch NFL games every week. What if they were getting a consistent message from the league they cherish that abuse of women is 100%, unequivocally, in every scenario, out of bounds?

When I proposed airing that ad on NFL games, I think I suggested it as a thumb in the eye of conservative men. That was wrong. That shouldn't be the goal of political campaigning. But I do think those ads would be powerful on the NFL platform. And if it causes men to get mad at the women they're abusing, that would be terrible. But those women will be abused regardless, and I'm all in favor of doing whatever we can to create opportunities to get women out of abusive situations as quickly as we can.

As for your point relating to the election, I 100% agree. I have a feeling the post mortem after Kamala wins will focus on three things.

1. Women led the way, and pre-election polls substantially underestimated women's support for Kamala.
2. Black Americans will vote for Kamala at least at 2020 levels, and likely even higher.
3. The gradual urbanization and education (at the college level) of Americans is putting the GOP in a tighter and tighter bind. Fascistic populism is a desperate hail Mary end game for a dying movement, not a recipe for future success.

OK. I was making an assumption because of your conservative past and that post. It's not that I thought you were unaware of the issue, only that you might not think about it much. If you represent DV victims regularly, then it would appear my assumption was off. I wasn't putting much weight on it, of course. It was a rhetorical post-starter.

As a general matter, I don't think it would matter if the NFL came out unequivocally against domestic violence. Men don't abuse wives because they think it's an OK thing to do. They do it because they think it advances their interests. They rationalize it as a not-that-bad thing (or even a perfectly acceptable thing in some cases). Having the NFL say it's wrong doesn't address any of the underlying issues. Breast cancer is, of course, an inapt analogy because breast cancer is not a contentious issue. Nobody is for breast cancer. Nobody emotionally relies on breast cancer. At most, men are indifferent to it, but nobody is going to feel threatened by eliminating breast cancer.

 

[ZenMode]

It all comes down to an apostrophe.

Did Biden say:

"The only garbage I see floating out there is his supporter's..... (rest of the thought)"

or

"The only garbage I see floating out there is his supporters.....(rest of the thought)""

 

[WaynetheDrain]

I've laid out in great detail in recent days my 6 or 7 main reasons I voted for Trump. My vote has been cast, I'm done rehashing the same points over and over. Now we just await the results, and I guarantee you I won't be on here freaking out if Trump loses.

I do think Trump is pretty funny sometimes. I don't think the garbage truck thing was all that funny personally. But I'd say I'm "lukewarm" to "thinks it's slightly funny" on it. But then again, I don't take politics nearly as seriously as most of you do. It's a hobby of mine but I have a different perspective on its importance than many of the TDS folks.

Most people who have hobbies aren’t ignorant about what it takes to be good at their hobbies. Just saying’…

 

[lawtig02]

OK. I was making an assumption because of your conservative past and that post. It's not that I thought you were unaware of the issue, only that you might not think about it much. If you represent DV victims regularly, then it would appear my assumption was off. I wasn't putting much weight on it, of course. It was a rhetorical post-starter.

As a general matter, I don't think it would matter if the NFL came out unequivocally against domestic violence. Men don't abuse wives because they think it's an OK thing to do. They do it because they think it advances their interests. They rationalize it as a not-that-bad thing (or even a perfectly acceptable thing in some cases). Having the NFL say it's wrong doesn't address any of the underlying issues. Breast cancer is, of course, an inapt analogy because breast cancer is not a contentious issue. Nobody is for breast cancer. Nobody emotionally relies on breast cancer. At most, men are indifferent to it, but nobody is going to feel threatened by eliminating breast cancer.

Yeah, I think we mostly agree. My analogy to breast cancer was largely because, as you say, it's not contentious. In fact, it's probably one of the LEAST contentious causes out there. The fact that DV is not also completely noncontentious is a massive black eye for men. And I could see the dial moving a little if an organization like the NFL, which is highly likely to be followed and respected by abusers, would come out and say DV is every bit as worthy of our social attention and correction as is an obviously noncontentious issue like breast cancer.

We're probably getting into another thread here, so I'll likely leave it as it is, but I do think we mostly agree.

 

[superrific]

It all comes down to an apostrophe.

Did Biden say:

"The only garbage I see floating out there is his supporter's..... (rest of the thought)"

or

"The only garbage I see floating out there is his supporters.....(rest of the thought)""

In context it was clearly the first.

 

[rodoheel]

I do think Trump is pretty funny sometimes. I don't think the garbage truck thing was all that funny personally. But I'd say I'm "lukewarm" to "thinks it's slightly funny" on it. But then again, I don't take politics nearly as seriously as most of you do. It's a hobby of mine but I have a different perspective on its importance than many of the TDS folks.

This sort of apathetic attitude is why I think we're headed for a continuing drift towards authoritarianism as a country, and we may not be shaken out of it unless/until our country experiences something truly catastrophic, like another world war or the complete collapse of the federal government. Too many people think that politics doesn't really matter, and that nothing will be that different whoever wins. Those people (HY2012 is far from the only one) basically take for granted the US's place as the wealthiest and most powerful country in the world - since the US has now been the wealthiest and most powerful national in the world for the entire living memory of, like, 99.9% of the world's population - and because we're the wealthiest and most powerful nation in the world nothing "that bad" can happen to us from a societal perspective. That's how you end up with millions of people basically shrugging their shoulders at the fairly openly autocratic musings of Trump and many of his top surrogates;, and telling themselves it's all talk; they don't really conceive that anything truly ugly could happen. I fear that they're not going to realize their mistake until it's too late, and all of us will be screwed together.

 

[nycfan]

Trump Will End Campaign in Michigan

Donald Trump plans to finish out his campaign in Grand Rapids, Michigan, where the former president also made his final campaign stops in 2016 and 2020, the Washington Post reports.

politicalwire.com

 

[ZenMode]

In context it was clearly the first.

I don't think it's as clear as you want it to be. Either way, it was not a good decision to have Joe navigating that verbal minefield, knowing he does not always express thought clearly.

 

[GQNC]

I've laid out in great detail in recent days my 6 or 7 main reasons I voted for Trump. My vote has been cast, I'm done rehashing the same points over and over. Now we just await the results, and I guarantee you I won't be on here freaking out if Trump loses.

I do think Trump is pretty funny sometimes. I don't think the garbage truck thing was all that funny personally. But I'd say I'm "lukewarm" to "thinks it's slightly funny" on it. But then again, I don't take politics nearly as seriously as most of you do. It's a hobby of mine but I have a different perspective on its importance than many of the TDS folks.

I hear your reasoning for supporting Trump, and like others, I can’t see your economic analysis. You have mentioned your sister’s liberal positioning (with disdain) and have mentioned on multiple occasions your dad’s Republican positioning (which you appear proud to be emulating). Is a possible that the latter is receiving a higher weighting than you admit?

True story, so I’ll tell it. My son-in-law (a couple year older than you) came from a very Republican family. Republican and respected enough that his dad was encouraged by the county Republican Party to run for a local race. He declined after receiving the list of positions he had to agree to and just could not support some.

In 2016 my SIL could not bring himself to vote for Trump, and rather than sitting it out he voted for Hillary. His dad, mom, and sister went for Trump. When 2020 came around Trump had lost my SIL’s mom and sister but not his dad. Now in 2024 all four from his family have voted for Harris, but all are still registered R. My SIL has shifted enough that he voted straight D.

Based on other comments you’ve made, you come to this board to get information that you’re obviously not getting from your typical sources. You learned some things here that made you research further and determined you could not support Robinson and Morrow. Good for you. I shared the sequence of events from my daughter’s husband and in-laws because my SIL had to go against the family grain to distance himself from a strictly Republican stance. He became the starting point to eventually even bring his dad to his thinking. Just sayin’.

 

[superrific]

Trump Will End Campaign in Michigan

Donald Trump plans to finish out his campaign in Grand Rapids, Michigan, where the former president also made his final campaign stops in 2016 and 2020, the Washington Post reports.

politicalwire.com

That's a fabulous place for him to close. Michigan ain't your tipping point state, muchacho.

 

[lawtig02]

That's a fabulous place for him to close. Michigan ain't your tipping point state, muchacho.

He's about to lose NC. More than happy for him to waste his time in Michigan.

 

[CFordUNC]

I cannot believe Chris and Susie are getting paid tens of millions of dollars to do this lolololol. I'd have happily tanked Trump's campaign for *several* fewer zeroes in the paycheck.

 

[CFordUNC]

LOLOLOLOLOL god almighty I'm gonna miss JD Vance.