Abortion Argument Within (f/k/a Biden to propose SCOTUS reform)

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ENCHeel said:
Here we go - I’m stupid because I believe in creationism and the rights of unborn children. Let me ask you this, what will that fetus become if it isn’t murdered by the woman who is supposed to be protecting it? By the way, the photo you provided is a fetus that most likely has a heart beat. I have a 1 year old child and we heard his heartbeat at 8 weeks. Only a sick and twisted individual would hear that and say “ya know what? I don’t want or need that in my life right now”. So, I’ll gladly be stupid in your eyes.
Just to be clear, you advocate for ending the life of a fetus for convenience of the mother and couch that as “human rights”?
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Believing in the rights of unborn fetuses is not stupid per se. Personhood is a legal/philosophical concept about which reasonable people can disagree (although the burden is very much on those who would resolve that disagreement by restricting the rights of women, whose personhood is not at all in question, to prove their case, which you have not). Believing in biblical creationism as a scientific fact rather than a theologically informative myth is pretty damn stupid. You really have to set aside everything empirically provable to believe something like that. And I say that as someone who believes in a God who is manifested in the physical world.
 
CallMeTyler said:
Answer the question: If you force someone to use their body against their will to force a pregnancy, are you granting them bodily autonomy? Yes or no?
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You are granting the fetus (which I believe is a living human being) bodily autonomy. Again, see my last post. If you want to end the lives of unborn children, that’s your moral degradation, not mine.
 
ENCHeel said:
You are granting the fetus (which I believe is a living human being) bodily autonomy. Again, see my last post. If you want to end the lives of unborn children, that’s your moral degradation, not mine.
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Why not call it what it is? The stages of development have names: zygote, blastocyst, embryo, fetus. Refusing to use the scientific labels and referring to these stages as “unborn child” is simply a political statement.
 
farce said:
Why not call it what it is? The stages of development have names: zygote, blastocyst, embryo, fetus. Refusing to use the scientific labels and referring to these stages as “unborn child” is simply a political statement.
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Well this is a political board isn’t it? Anyway, the fetus or whatever name you choose, in the vast majority of cases will be a child if it isn’t terminated. Think of it that way if you need to.
 
ENCHeel said:
Do you actually not understand the difference there? Genuinely asking.
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Oh, I’m very aware of this court’s view of stare decisis, especially in the last couple of terms. We’re to the point it’s more surprising when the court upholds precedent than when it tosses it aside.

www.courthousenews.com

For the Roberts court, upholding precedent leaves more questions than answers

A week after five of the high court’s justices upheld protections for Black voters in Alabama, legal experts are struggling to square the ruling with the court’s history.
www.courthousenews.com www.courthousenews.com
 
ENCHeel said:
You are granting the fetus (which I believe is a living human being) bodily autonomy. Again, see my last post. If you want to end the lives of unborn children, that’s your moral degradation, not mine.
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At what point does it become living? How many cells?



I'm awaiting the first person to sue to get to vote at 17.3 years old because the GOP said they've really been alive 18 years. It's coming ..
 
ENCHeel said:
You are granting the fetus (which I believe is a living human being) bodily autonomy. Again, see my last post. If you want to end the lives of unborn children, that’s your moral degradation, not mine.
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So your answer is no. You are by definition irrational.
 
ENCHeel said:
Here we go - I’m stupid because I believe in creationism and the rights of unborn children. Let me ask you this, what will that fetus become if it isn’t murdered by the woman who is supposed to be protecting it? By the way, the photo you provided is a fetus that most likely has a heart beat. I have a 1 year old child and we heard his heartbeat at 8 weeks. Only a sick and twisted individual would hear that and say “ya know what? I don’t want or need that in my life right now”. So, I’ll gladly be stupid in your eyes.
Just to be clear, you advocate for ending the life of a fetus for convenience of the mother and couch that as “human rights”?
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If you are so into the bible, then why are so you into the supposed rights of "unborn children." To the extent that the Bible speaks to abortion at all, it does so with tolerance. The fact is that abortion was common in the ancient world and Jesus, who preached in that world, didn't condemn it a single time. How strange.
 
superrific said:
If you are so into the bible, then why are so you into the supposed rights of "unborn children." To the extent that the Bible speaks to abortion at all, it does so with tolerance. The fact is that abortion was common in the ancient world and Jesus, who preached in that world, didn't condemn it a single time. How strange.
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Children are created in gods image - in the womb. He condemned murder. There ya have it.
 
ENCHeel said:
Here we go - I’m stupid because I believe in creationism and the rights of unborn children. Let me ask you this, what will that fetus become if it isn’t murdered by the woman who is supposed to be protecting it? By the way, the photo you provided is a fetus that most likely has a heart beat. I have a 1 year old child and we heard his heartbeat at 8 weeks. Only a sick and twisted individual would hear that and say “ya know what? I don’t want or need that in my life right now”. So, I’ll gladly be stupid in your eyes.
Just to be clear, you advocate for ending the life of a fetus for convenience of the mother and couch that as “human rights”?
Click to expand...
You didn’t hear a heartbeat at 8 weeks. You heard a manufactured sound.

The embryo doesn’t have a heart at 6-9 weeks. It becomes a fetus at 10 weeks. It develops a fully functioning heart at 17-20 weeks.
 
ENCHeel said:
Children are created in gods image - in the womb. He condemned murder. There ya have it.
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We're talking about the guy who had his murderous exploits documented for the world to read about? He's the supreme executioner.

Genesis 6: 7 (think of the innocent unborn children captured in the flood), Genesis 19: 4-5, Ezekiel 16: 49-50, Genesis 19: 26, Genesis 38: 7, Genesis 38: 9-10, Exodus 12: 29 (God really showed mercy to those innocent first-born), Numbers 16: 49, Numbers 21: 4-9, Numbers 25: 9, Deuteronomy 2: 14-16.

This is but a taste of his mercy.
 
ENCHeel said:
Children are created in gods image - in the womb. He condemned murder. There ya have it.
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God is a collection of cells the size of a pea? How fascinating. But anyway, back to the point: children are created in god's image but that doesn't mean they are in God's image from the moment the sperm hits the egg.

Again, if God was so interested in the unborn, then why did his son -- who was sent to Earth and did a lot of preaching in his short time here -- say nothing at all about abortion?

Don't worry. You're not the only one with no answer to this. I've posed the question to countless literalists or creationists and there's no meaningful response. God's image does not actually tell you anything about when life begins, when the collection of cells becomes human, etc.
 
Zoo_View said:
You didn’t hear a heartbeat at 8 weeks. You heard a manufactured sound.

The embryo doesn’t have a heart at 6-9 weeks. It becomes a fetus at 10 weeks. It develops a fully functioning heart at 17-20 weeks.
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Science says otherwise. I thought you believe science? Are you accusing doctors of making up sounds and telling expecting parents that is a heartbeat?
 
superrific said:
God is a collection of cells the size of a pea? How fascinating. But anyway, back to the point: children are created in god's image but that doesn't mean they are in God's image from the moment the sperm hits the egg.

Again, if God was so interested in the unborn, then why did his son -- who was sent to Earth and did a lot of preaching in his short time here -- say nothing at all about abortion?

Don't worry. You're not the only one with no answer to this. I've posed the question to countless literalists or creationists and there's no meaningful response. God's image does not actually tell you anything about when life begins, when the collection of cells becomes human, etc.
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I’d love to see some evidence abortion was widespread as you say in Jesus time on earth. Seems like a calculated effort to attack Christianity and label Jesus as some woke liberal who would approve of killing children.
 
Can we ignore this troll and stop polluting the thread with stupidity about abortion? This fool has no idea what he's talking about on any subject, whether it's his own religion or what he calls "science."
 
CallMeTyler said:
We're talking about the guy who had his murderous exploits documented for the world to read about? He's the supreme executioner.

Genesis 6: 7 (think of the innocent unborn children captured in the flood), Genesis 19: 4-5, Ezekiel 16: 49-50, Genesis 19: 26, Genesis 38: 7, Genesis 38: 9-10, Exodus 12: 29 (God really showed mercy to those innocent first-born), Numbers 16: 49, Numbers 21: 4-9, Numbers 25: 9, Deuteronomy 2: 14-16.

This is but a taste of his mercy.
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God only shows mercy to those who believe in him and trust in his grace. Children are most likely in heaven due to their incapability of understanding that concept fully. I really shouldn’t be given what’s happening in this world today, but to see hatred and disrespect for God so blatant in this manner is shocking. Really scary stuff.
Of course, the Bible teaches and predicts all of this - right will become wrong, etc etc. Clear we are living in the end times, and you folks have helped me trust in God even more given that you are basically living proof of his predictions.
 
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