Aphantasia and the Mind's Eye

Does it relate in any way to the characteristics needed to be a high level bridge player? Is it more online now or do people still congregate in groups to play?

There is an huge online D&D following through discord, roll20, etc. D&D has exploded in popularity over the last ten years - part of this was due to Stranger Things, but a lot had to do with COVID. It was a great way to get together without getting together. Dungeon Masters also have a much easier time talking shop with other DMs through online groups, which really helps with planning, logistics, and figuring out how to “deal” with problematic player behavior.

A big divide in the D&D community right now is actually over appropriate use of AI by both DMs and players.
 
There is an huge online following through discord, roll20, etc. D&D has exploded in popularity over the last ten years - part of this was due to Stranger Things, but a lot had to do with COVID. It was a great way to get together without getting together. Dungeon Masters also have a much easier time talking shop with other DMs through online groups, which really helps with planning, logistics, and figuring out how to “deal” with problematic behavior.

A big divide in the community right now is actually over appropriate use of AI by both DMs and players.
I have always been fascinated by the devotion players had to it and I admit I don't understand it. You are right about the explosion in popularity. I kind of think about it in a similar way to pickleball's growth in popularity.
 
There is an huge online D&D following through discord, roll20, etc. D&D has exploded in popularity over the last ten years - part of this was due to Stranger Things, but a lot had to do with COVID. It was a great way to get together without getting together. Dungeon Masters also have a much easier time talking shop with other DMs through online groups, which really helps with planning, logistics, and figuring out how to “deal” with problematic player behavior.

A big divide in the D&D community right now is actually over appropriate use of AI by both DMs and players.
What's your opinion of AI in gaming?
 
This is fascinating, something I never knew. Thanks for bringing it up.

I wonder if people with aphantasia prefer factual/informative type reading while those with hyperphantasia like descriptive fiction/fantasy etc.
I can’t speak for others, but I am drawn to fantasy and horror. I’ve been a voracious reader for as long as I can remember, and I’ve always been a fiction over non-fiction kind of guy. I also love comic books, for reasons that may, or may not, be related to having aphantasia.

People with aphantasia apparently have an easier time reading quickly because of how we process the words. I think almost entirely in language. This helps with both reading and writing. I suspect that is also true of others with it.
 
What's your opinion of AI in gaming?
I don’t know. I have used it a couple of times when playing as a bard - it helps with coming up with on the spot insults, or turning a situation into a poem.

It feels… unethical? But it can be a bridge as well.

Ultimately, I think each group needs to discuss whether or not it is acceptable to use, and for what purposes.
 
This is in no way a political thread, but IMO it's interesting in a "dull men's club" way, and fuck it, I'm posting it here.

I recently learned that I am a life long sufferer of what is known as Aphantasia. This is really fucking with my head, as it explains a great deal about me.

When people with aphantasia close their eyes and imagine something, we simply do not see it. My mind's eye is, essentially, blank.

1737056646361.png

Now, for years, I assumed that, when people spoke about their mind's eye, or making a movie when they read, that they were speaking in metaphor, something that my brain is prewired to do because it can't "see." I taught English at the high school level for over two decades, and was good at it, despite the fact that my experience with reading books is different from that of others (or perhaps because of its difference).

When I close my eyes and think of something, this is what I see:
1737060212313.png

I dated a girl in college who had an eidetic memory (I have no idea if having hyperphantasia and being eidetic are the same thing). She described skimming a book, taking a test (at UNC) on the material, and being able to see the words on the page that would answer the question. There was no processing of the information. She just gave the answer that was required of her, which she saw and adjusted to not be plagiarism. She also had gotten a 1590 out of 1600 on the SAT and, not surprisingly, could tell you which question she got wrong and why). I really wanted that memory until I understood how much trauma was connected to it. She was unable to let go of anything because all of her memories of everything were so incredibly vivid.

So I knew that that existed, but I assumed that everyone else's "mind's eye" was metaphorical, and not a vast spectrum, or that my mind was as abnormal as hers.

When I read, I've always placed analysis (thematic, symbolism, characterization) over plot, and never really understood why others are so concerned with things like a character's appearance, particularly when transferring from book to screen. When I read a book, I occasionally get tiny snippets of visualization, but what I generally see is just words, words, words. This is, apparently, common of people with aphantasia - who often show a strong ability to analyze in any field, but particularly math, science, and literature), because we don't have internal visual distractions. I also read quickly, and skim through long passages of narration because they are essentially useless to me.

I never really understood their purpose - if we are being honest - but now I understand that, for some people, description greatly impacts how they "see" what they read. Generally, when something like a piece of furniture gets described, I just think if it as being that particular piece of furniture until given a reason to think about it more precisely.

It also explains why memorization was difficult for me growing up. I, and other people with aphantasia tend to struggle with short term memory, particularly on the retrieval end. Throughout most of my life, I worked harder than others, but often found myself failing rote memorization.

I distinctly remember taking a test in 9th grade on Catcher in the Rye where one of the questions was "what color hat was Holden wearing?" I had no idea, because that simply wasn't something that, until then, registered when I read. The teacher was, I believe, just checking to see who had and had not read, but over the years, that moment got me more interested in visual symbolism (it was a red hunting hat, for those that are interested). The idea that anyone would simply be able to visualize Holden, wearing said hat, in their mind - had never occurred to me until recently. I would have needed to deliberately repeated "Holden Caufield wears a red hat" over and over again in my mind in order to memorize that piece of information. That, generally, is how I memorize things.

This is a video of author John Green wearing, and talking about said hat (more on John Green later).



I've also struggled with facial recognition and names for a long time. I even remember thinking, one night in middle school, how it was that we recognized people when we saw them. I wondered, at the time, if it had to do with process of elimination based on who you knew would be where and when, or had to do with the sound of their voice, or some other cues. I quickly decided that, for people that you were familiar with, it was something stronger, but I could never say, exactly, what. Oddly, I'm really great at reading body language, but that has taken decades of deliberate work on my part.

Unsurprisingly, prosopagnosia (face blindness) and aphantasia go hand in hand. When I was introduced to that concept, years ago, it was presented as looking like this:

1737058339256.png

I quickly erased that off the chart, because it isn't remotely what I see when I see someone. I believe that I "see" faces as well as anyone else (although I'm uncertain, because as with the mind's eye, I have no idea what I see vs. what someone else does), but I often struggle to be confident that, if I have only met someone a few times, they are the person that I think they are (particularly if they change their hair or appearance). That self doubt has led me to be careful to not use names (which I struggle with even when I "know" someone), and to build several cues that will help ensure that I don't make an ass of myself, or offend someone else.

I really suck at directions because I can't picture routes in my mind. It's easy for me to get lost, even in areas that I am deeply familiar with, and I often find myself taking wrong turns. Thank God for navigation tools.

Aphantasia as a concept was discovered in the late 1800s when Francis Galton conducted a study on mental imagery: Classics in the History of Psychology -- Galton (1880)

The idea sat there, but not much was done with it for the next hundred or so years.

The concept, aphantasia," is then relatively new, despite the fact that apparently at least 1% of the population suffers from it. 2015https://psyche.co/ideas/i-have-no-minds-eye-let-me-try-to-describe-it-for-you

The term didn't come into existence until 2015, although folks are starting to make up time, as there are huge implications for how we process information and communicate with others (man and machine). And, of course, how this influences dementia later in life is critical. I have a weaker autobiographical memory than others because of my condition (which is great, because I can let negative experiences with others go easier than others), but whether I'm more likely to get dementia (because my memory is already pretty shoddy) or less likely (because I make connections differently than others) is unknown at this time.

Recently, I've been researching this shit to high heaven, in part because I left the classroom to be a librarian at my school 3 years ago and then, due to district cuts, moved to the EC department. I've always been fascinated by the relationship between our minds and how we learn (In addition to being an English teacher, I was one hell of a Theory of Knowledge teacher in our school's IB program). Now that I'm working almost primarily with students who struggle in school, my focus on that has only increased (ironically, but not surprisingly, the only other person who I know who also has aphantasia is our E.C. department chair - and I've talked with a number of people in my immediate circle about my condition since then).

Being curious, I decided to look up who else has aphantasia. Ed Catmull, the co-founder of Pixar (and former head of Disney Animation Studios), is one of them, and has employed a number of artists who also have the condition (because he has it, he is "mindful" about hiring artists across the mind's visualization spectrum). Geneticist Craig Venter is another one.

(cont)

I am the same. So is at least on of my brothers.

We discussed this a few months ago. Crazy.
 
I immediately pictured an American Idol contestant from NC when I read the thread title. You guessed it. Clay Aiken.
 
I haven't read the whole thread yet, but you'd think that people with aphantasia wouldn't dream visually either. I've never heard of aphantasia, but when I did the apple test, I saw nothing. But I do dream visually...
I dream visually as well. I am guessing the two are not connected.
 
I dream visually as well. I am guessing the two are not connected.
Results vary:

Even within diagnosed aphantasia, there are vast differences, such as the ability to dream. Many people with aphantasia only dream in words, but others dream vividly and with real-life images. This is because dreaming utilizes a different part of the brain, which aphantasia may or may not affect.

People with the condition often find it difficult to recall their childhood or vacations, since they can’t access visual memories. They are also sometimes less sensitive to scary outside influences, such as horror movies. This is because the fearsome images might not turn up again in their dreams.
 
Interestingly, I hate audio books. I have no idea if that is true of others with aphantasia. It may also be my adhd - although that, too, may be a result of aphantasia. who knows.
 
This is in no way a political thread, but IMO it's interesting in a "dull men's club" way, and fuck it, I'm posting it here.

I recently learned that I am a life long sufferer of what is known as Aphantasia. This is really fucking with my head, as it explains a great deal about me.

When people with aphantasia close their eyes and imagine something, we simply do not see it. My mind's eye is, essentially, blank.

1737056646361.png

Now, for years, I assumed that, when people spoke about their mind's eye, or making a movie when they read, that they were speaking in metaphor, something that my brain is prewired to do because it can't "see." I taught English at the high school level for over two decades, and was good at it, despite the fact that my experience with reading books is different from that of others (or perhaps because of its difference).

When I close my eyes and think of something, this is what I see:
1737060212313.png

I dated a girl in college who had an eidetic memory (I have no idea if having hyperphantasia and being eidetic are the same thing). She described skimming a book, taking a test (at UNC) on the material, and being able to see the words on the page that would answer the question. There was no processing of the information. She just gave the answer that was required of her, which she saw and adjusted to not be plagiarism. She also had gotten a 1590 out of 1600 on the SAT and, not surprisingly, could tell you which question she got wrong and why). I really wanted that memory until I understood how much trauma was connected to it. She was unable to let go of anything because all of her memories of everything were so incredibly vivid.

So I knew that that existed, but I assumed that everyone else's "mind's eye" was metaphorical, and not a vast spectrum, or that my mind was as abnormal as hers.

When I read, I've always placed analysis (thematic, symbolism, characterization) over plot, and never really understood why others are so concerned with things like a character's appearance, particularly when transferring from book to screen. When I read a book, I occasionally get tiny snippets of visualization, but what I generally see is just words, words, words. This is, apparently, common of people with aphantasia - who often show a strong ability to analyze in any field, but particularly math, science, and literature), because we don't have internal visual distractions. I also read quickly, and skim through long passages of narration because they are essentially useless to me.

I never really understood their purpose - if we are being honest - but now I understand that, for some people, description greatly impacts how they "see" what they read. Generally, when something like a piece of furniture gets described, I just think if it as being that particular piece of furniture until given a reason to think about it more precisely.

It also explains why memorization was difficult for me growing up. I, and other people with aphantasia tend to struggle with short term memory, particularly on the retrieval end. Throughout most of my life, I worked harder than others, but often found myself failing rote memorization.

I distinctly remember taking a test in 9th grade on Catcher in the Rye where one of the questions was "what color hat was Holden wearing?" I had no idea, because that simply wasn't something that, until then, registered when I read. The teacher was, I believe, just checking to see who had and had not read, but over the years, that moment got me more interested in visual symbolism (it was a red hunting hat, for those that are interested). The idea that anyone would simply be able to visualize Holden, wearing said hat, in their mind - had never occurred to me until recently. I would have needed to deliberately repeated "Holden Caufield wears a red hat" over and over again in my mind in order to memorize that piece of information. That, generally, is how I memorize things.

This is a video of author John Green wearing, and talking about said hat (more on John Green later).



I've also struggled with facial recognition and names for a long time. I even remember thinking, one night in middle school, how it was that we recognized people when we saw them. I wondered, at the time, if it had to do with process of elimination based on who you knew would be where and when, or had to do with the sound of their voice, or some other cues. I quickly decided that, for people that you were familiar with, it was something stronger, but I could never say, exactly, what. Oddly, I'm really great at reading body language, but that has taken decades of deliberate work on my part.

Unsurprisingly, prosopagnosia (face blindness) and aphantasia go hand in hand. When I was introduced to that concept, years ago, it was presented as looking like this:

1737058339256.png

I quickly erased that off the chart, because it isn't remotely what I see when I see someone. I believe that I "see" faces as well as anyone else (although I'm uncertain, because as with the mind's eye, I have no idea what I see vs. what someone else does), but I often struggle to be confident that, if I have only met someone a few times, they are the person that I think they are (particularly if they change their hair or appearance). That self doubt has led me to be careful to not use names (which I struggle with even when I "know" someone), and to build several cues that will help ensure that I don't make an ass of myself, or offend someone else.

I really suck at directions because I can't picture routes in my mind. It's easy for me to get lost, even in areas that I am deeply familiar with, and I often find myself taking wrong turns. Thank God for navigation tools.

Aphantasia as a concept was discovered in the late 1800s when Francis Galton conducted a study on mental imagery: Classics in the History of Psychology -- Galton (1880)

The idea sat there, but not much was done with it for the next hundred or so years.

The concept, aphantasia," is then relatively new, despite the fact that apparently at least 1% of the population suffers from it. 2015https://psyche.co/ideas/i-have-no-minds-eye-let-me-try-to-describe-it-for-you

The term didn't come into existence until 2015, although folks are starting to make up time, as there are huge implications for how we process information and communicate with others (man and machine). And, of course, how this influences dementia later in life is critical. I have a weaker autobiographical memory than others because of my condition (which is great, because I can let negative experiences with others go easier than others), but whether I'm more likely to get dementia (because my memory is already pretty shoddy) or less likely (because I make connections differently than others) is unknown at this time.

Recently, I've been researching this shit to high heaven, in part because I left the classroom to be a librarian at my school 3 years ago and then, due to district cuts, moved to the EC department. I've always been fascinated by the relationship between our minds and how we learn (In addition to being an English teacher, I was one hell of a Theory of Knowledge teacher in our school's IB program). Now that I'm working almost primarily with students who struggle in school, my focus on that has only increased (ironically, but not surprisingly, the only other person who I know who also has aphantasia is our E.C. department chair - and I've talked with a number of people in my immediate circle about my condition since then).

Being curious, I decided to look up who else has aphantasia. Ed Catmull, the co-founder of Pixar (and former head of Disney Animation Studios), is one of them, and has employed a number of artists who also have the condition (because he has it, he is "mindful" about hiring artists across the mind's visualization spectrum). Geneticist Craig Venter is another one.

(cont)

Very interesting.

I do visualize things in my mind.

I also recently found out that some people don't have the inner voice. I always assumed that everyone had both of these abilities.

My inner voice is mean. I have to tell it to STFU a lot.
 
Yeah - I have had a number of learning disabilities that I have had to overcome in my own life, but aphantasia seems to be the core condition (I assumed for a long time that autism was). I think they make me a better teacher, but now I am also really wondering how my own limitations helped, and hurt, the way I teach not only literature, but also the act of reading, itself.

I am certain, however, that I do not want an eidetic memory. My post fire (multiple experiences) PTSD was bad enough as it was. It would have been much worse without aphantasia.
I once thought I would love to be able to remember everything, until I read a story about someone who could and it drove them crazy. To the point they took their own life.

I still wish I had a better memory. I really wonder now which factor played a greater role in my memory issues, my drug use or working night shift for 10 years and sleeping very poorly and never getting enough sleep. I've read several things that relate sleep to retaining and long-term memory. Actually, listened to a podcast today that mentioned it.
 
My God, yes. And for the better, largely.

Technologically, advances in 3D printing have allowed for an explosion in tabletop miniatures for characters and enemies. The proliferation of flat screen TVs and virtual table tops (software which allows you to create maps of terrain) means I no longer need to spend hours drawing maps (poorly) on grid paper. VTTs have also meant that people can play online, which was a real mental health lifesaver during the pandemic.

New gaming systems (because I use Dungeons and Dragons as a catch all term that most people are vaguely familiar with) have expanded not just the worlds in which people can interact but also the ways in which they can interact with those worlds. Some games are almost collaborative storytelling experiences, others are closer to tabletop war game simulators. They also draw new and different people to the table - I've played with doctors, engineers, attorneys, baristas, bartenders, teachers, musicians, therapists, you name it. What had previously been very niche and a gatekeeping community has grown wonderfully.
My daughter made some very large 10 sided ( I think it was 10, maybe more, they were about 10 inches tall) die for her friend she plays D&D with. He put a picture online and 50 people purchased them from her through Etsy. They were cool, but she got a little tired of sewing after she fulfilled the orders.
 
This is in no way a political thread, but IMO it's interesting in a "dull men's club" way, and fuck it, I'm posting it here.
Great starting sentence in a post.

Exactly, just post it. You never know what's going to be popular. Hell, there's a 6+ page thread on rom coms. 😁
 
I don’t know. I have used it a couple of times when playing as a bard - it helps with coming up with on the spot insults, or turning a situation into a poem.

It feels… unethical? But it can be a bridge as well.

Ultimately, I think each group needs to discuss whether or not it is acceptable to use, and for what purposes.
I mean, in those circumstances, playing a character who lives by wit and verse may be easier with the assist, since so few of us are capable of that.

On the other hand, I could see it being abused, and as a forever-GM, I kinda loathe the idea of using it for devising plots or encounters.

My group sometimes uses it for session recaps (though weird table banter can throw things off) and character art. I'm not a huge fan of either, but the recaps at least relieve someone at the table of having to keep a journal.
 
Results vary:

Even within diagnosed aphantasia, there are vast differences, such as the ability to dream. Many people with aphantasia only dream in words, but others dream vividly and with real-life images. This is because dreaming utilizes a different part of the brain, which aphantasia may or may not affect.

People with the condition often find it difficult to recall their childhood or vacations, since they can’t access visual memories. They are also sometimes less sensitive to scary outside influences, such as horror movies. This is because the fearsome images might not turn up again in their dreams.
This is interesting because I do have very visual memories. I see the images in the back of my mind but can't physically see them if that makes any sense. It is as if the rest of my mind is responding to the visual image as if it exists but the part of my brain that actually generates the visual image is not doing so. I didn't know some people actually see things like the apple.

All of that said, I am different from you in that I am very visual and not language oriented. I'm embarrassed to say that I have never taken up reading as a hobby. Ever since I was a child, it always seemed like work and could never compete with the images on the TV. Everyone else in my family were avid readers. I think maybe I have some undiagnosed ADHD or something because when I was younger I could only get a few paragraphs in before my mind wandered. I'd read a page or two without absorbing anything I read.

Anyway, enough of that, getting off topic.
 
My inner voice is mean. I have to tell it to STFU a lot.
My inner voice is indecisive. This leads to awkward moments in the hallway at school when someone sees me stop, turn around and go in a different direction because I have an internal list of things to do and I have just come up with a more efficient way to do the.

And then. Sometimes I turn around again, because I have decided that the original way really does make the most logical sense.

Which just looks weird if you don’t know what is going on in my head.

Hell, it looks weird to me.
 
Great starting sentence in a post.

Exactly, just post it. You never know what's going to be popular. Hell, there's a 6+ page thread on rom coms. 😁
I generally prefer posting on other people’s threads rather than starting my own. In my many years on IC, heeltalk, and now here, I have probably only started a few dozen, and most were on the basketball board.

This one felt right.

And I was particularly proud of that opening line. Thanks for noticing! I figured that the long post would turn some people off, but that a couple who might not otherwise read it would see that opening line and think… “well, this has potential.”
 
I mean, in those circumstances, playing a character who lives by wit and verse may be easier with the assist, since so few of us are capable of that.

On the other hand, I could see it being abused, and as a forever-GM, I kinda loathe the idea of using it for devising plots or encounters.

My group sometimes uses it for session recaps (though weird table banter can throw things off) and character art. I'm not a huge fan of either, but the recaps at least relieve someone at the table of having to keep a journal.
If I were to use it as a DM, it would probably be to improve description of towns, or build stronger minor NPCs (the kind that might appear in an adventure if the group were to go tavern X rather than tavern Y).
 
If I were to use it as a DM, it would probably be to improve description of towns, or build stronger minor NPCs (the kind that might appear in an adventure if the group were to go tavern X rather than tavern Y).
I've picked up a few tricks for that over the years. I've got a book with tables for random adjectives, professions, identifying features for NPCs. Plus I do voices ... So I'm kind of a big deal😂
 
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