Biorhythms for Carolina @SMU: 2:15 Start on CW

heel79 said:
I think one of your great coaching decisions was not becoming one.
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That is unfair.

I think he'd have made a *great* coach. Did you hear him say how he's regretted not going into education so he could coach elementary or jr high or high school basketball? Did you just miss his passion for the game?

You can disagree with someone without disrespecting their mind or intentions.
 
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duluoz said:
Not at all costs. I’m saying that HD’s results (overall and this season) haven’t been nearly as bad as many of you make them out to be, and there are countless legitimate reasons why they haven’t been better in this f’d up post-covid, portal, NIL climate.

And I’m saying that everyone willing to usher him out the door had better understand *exactly* what they’re giving up in doing so. Something that took over half a century to build in the Dean/Roy era, something you don’t just “cultivate” in a couple years… and it seems to me that it’s not being appreciated or considered in any context beyond “I’m mad my team isn’t winning as much as they used to and I demand change now!” Which, that’s certainly one way to be a fan. Fair enough. It’s just not my way in this case. It’s much more complicated than that, and I’m much more reluctant to give it up, especially when there’s *zero* contingency plan beyond “do a search and choose the best option,” as if it’s a given that top choices would even want the job.

And especially when the team is 13 and fucking 2. Give me a break.
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I guess I just don't understand why you think if they move on from HD/staff and bring someone in who's never had any prior tie to UNC then "Carolina Basketball" is over. "Carolina Basketball" was seeded, tended to, and cultivated by many folks who's first tie to UNC was when they got here. Thinking it can only be continued with a head coach with prior ties to UNC sounds close-minded to me, the exact opposite of the person credited for planting the first seed.

Regarding having "zero contingency plan" beyond doing a proper search and finding the best fit for the program, isn't that the absolute best contingency plan anyone can have? To me it is. (Note: Best fit doesn't imply win at all costs.)

Having said all of that, I don't think anyone here is screaming for him to be fired at 13-2. The discussion was surrounding what would need to happen this season in order for HD/staff to be given another year, according to you. After all, it's the AD who's going to decide.
 
donbosco said:
For Coach McGuire through Coach Williams we had Carolina, THE University of North Carolina, a top-rated academic school in an archetypal college town with an idyllic campus -- each of those coaches had something other than money to lay out for a particular type of young player. Those sorts of things don't matter anymore because the ONLY issue today is money. Yeah, smart players are also cognizant of the extra exposure that winning can bring...especially runs through March into April and the concomitant pay-out that promises, but the good players, not even the just great players, but ones like Jaron Pierre Jr. or Robert MacRay III or Jordan Riley are no longer thinking about degrees or majors or post-college careers -- they're thinking about how much money they can get while playing college basketball and how much they can parlay that into past their, hopefully, five year earnings at that level.

So the worlds in which McGuire, Coach Smith, Coach Gut, and Coach Williams coached and recruited were nothing like the world, almost utterly uncharted, that Coach Davis has in front of him. Now maybe he is stuck in the past and believes that there are enough good players left on earth that want to come to the University of North Carolina not just MONEY U. That he has brought Harrison Ingram, Brady Manek, Cormac Ryan, Henri Veesaar, Elliott Cadeau, Ian Jackson, and Drake Powell to Carolina -- just to name seven of which five strike me as the type of young men that Coach Smith or Coach Williams would also recruit and land, says to me that Coach Davis stands by his alma mater as an elite institution across the board, in more ways than only athletics.

I realize that there are those who scoff at The Carolina Way, suggest that it never even existed, or that it was a shell game -- and there are people for whom the university itself matters not one whit -- there are even Carolina fans that admire and wish we were more like some other schools but I'm not one of those people.
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PS, it is for these reasons that I also much prefer a coach that also loves my alma mater.
 
stankeylegjones said:
I guess I just don't understand why you think if they move on from HD/staff and bring someone in who's never had any prior tie to UNC then "Carolina Basketball" is over. "Carolina Basketball" was seeded, tended to, and cultivated by many folks who's first tie to UNC was when they got here. Thinking it can only be continued with a head coach with prior ties to UNC sounds close-minded to me, the exact opposite of the person credited for planting the first seed.

Regarding having "zero contingency plan" beyond doing a proper search and finding the best fit for the program, isn't that the absolute best contingency plan anyone can have? To me it is. (Note: Best fit doesn't imply win at all costs.)

Having said all of that, I don't think anyone here is screaming for him to be fired at 13-2. The discussion was surrounding what would need to happen this season in order for HD/staff to be given another year, according to you. After all, it's the AD who's going to decide.
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And I guess I just don’t understand why you think it could be rebuilt, ever… but especially in this money-first, advertising and sponsorship driven climate. It’s like thinking we could sprout another Everest in our lifetimes.

At least be honest with yourself and acknowledge that what you’re advocating for amounts to the end of the Dean Smith era. Own up to that, and say you’re ok with trading that for a chance at some more wins, and I’d respectfully disagree. Otherwise, I think your stance is just petulant and full of shit.
 
CarolinaFever said:
Or we could just be rational and be talking about our view of things on a message board which is the whole point of message boards
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Would you point out where rationality was required to post anywhere? You're right that the whole point of message boards are to talk but almost everybody leaves their rationality at the door. Fair weather fans strain their credibility every time they jump off the band wagon.
 
Mulberry Heel said:
This was debated endlessly at the end of last season and the general consensus here seemed to be a Top 10 finish this season, a Top 3 finish in the ACC and a deep run (Sweet 16 bare minimum, Elite Eight/Final Four better) or he was likely out at the end of the year. What I'm at least as interested to hear is what replacement coach those who want him gone have lined up. There is no guaranteed Roy Williams type out there, and given how much we're already paying Belichick and his staff I'm wondering where the big bucks would come from to line up a big name coach who is likely to succeed right away.

And while I've been a Davis supporter, I'm not saying that we shouldn't fire him if things go south this season, only that replacing him with a "guaranteed proven winner" is likely going to be much harder this time around than it was when we fired Doherty.
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There's also the direction that a new hire will send our program and how much the connection to "Carolina tradition" stays in place. I'm not sold that that is a requirement but am a little leery about risking the link to it.
 
stankeylegjones said:
It definitely doesn't help that the one team which is always consistently in the conversation of the top teams is our biggest rival, and it doesn't appear that they are falling off anytime soon. I think many of the disgruntled fans would be able to accept your point if that wasn't the case.
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Does it help that they have had absolutely the most talent of anybody over the last 15 years and haven't won a championship since 2015? What does that say?
 
heel79 said:
They get everyone they want. I wonder why.
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I wonder why we do not. We should. In an era where any athlete can be paid openly, one of the premiere brands in college basketball should be able to pick its desired roster.

The UNC basketball roster building process should be very similar to Duke as far as resources and ability, should it not?
 
wmheel1287 said:
I wonder why we do not. We should. In an era where any athlete can be paid openly, one of the premiere brands in college basketball should be able to pick its desired roster.

The UNC basketball roster building process should be very similar to Duke as far as resources and ability, should it not?
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:rolleyes:
 
finesse said:
I have absolutely no idea why a private school could do so much better than a public one, especially one with a lot of money and privacy.
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This might have held water a decade ago but now it is just an excuse. We, like every other D1 school, can do whatever we want now.
 
wmheel1287 said:
This might have held water a decade ago but now it is just an excuse. We, like every other D1 school, can do whatever we want now.
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There are still limits. As always, the inability to escape FOIA requests make certain things easier for private vs. public schools, including such things as private arrangements.


  • Annual Cap: Schools can pay a maximum of about $20.5 million annually per school, a significant shift from previous restrictions.
  • Distribution Formulas: Schools will decide how to divide this money, with common patterns suggesting more for football and men's basketball.
  • Reporting: NIL earnings over $600 must be reported through a new national portal.
  • Roster & Scholarship Changes: Direct payments may lead to roster caps (e.g., 105 football players) and changes to the traditional scholarship system.
  • International Athletes: U.S. federal visa rules (F-1) often prevent international athletes from earning through NIL or direct pay, creating inequities.
 
finesse said:
There are still limits. As always, the inability to escape FOIA requests make certain things easier for private vs. public schools, including such things as private arrangements.


  • Annual Cap: Schools can pay a maximum of about $20.5 million annually per school, a significant shift from previous restrictions.
  • Distribution Formulas: Schools will decide how to divide this money, with common patterns suggesting more for football and men's basketball.
  • Reporting: NIL earnings over $600 must be reported through a new national portal.
  • Roster & Scholarship Changes: Direct payments may lead to roster caps (e.g., 105 football players) and changes to the traditional scholarship system.
  • International Athletes: U.S. federal visa rules (F-1) often prevent international athletes from earning through NIL or direct pay, creating inequities.
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Do you honestly believe that UNC ot any other school cant structure an NIL deal today and get it through the clearinghouse with the sheerest veil of legitimacy?
 
wmheel1287 said:
Do you honestly believe that UNC ot any other school cant structure an NIL deal today and get it through the clearinghouse with the sheerest veil of legitimacy?
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I honestly believe that public schools are a hell of a lot more likely to get such arrangements exposed which, if you're a liberal school in a conservative state with a hostile legislature trying to cut funds, should put a hitch in your giddyup. It's not just the NIL deals, anyway. Less licit deals are easier for privates as well.
 
"... if you're a liberal school in a conservative state with a hostile legislature trying to cut funds, should put a hitch in your giddyup."

This^^^
Doesn't seem much of a stretch to believe this is true. Especially when the conservative legislature favors another public school with red as their color. And anyone that doesn't think private schools can still sweep certain things under a rug beyond the sight of scrutiny more-so than a public school is being willfully ignorant.
 
I admit that I'm curious as to how Sheyer has managed to continue the high level of landing top recruits that Rat was able to do, especially in the current Wild West Days of Pay to Play.

I get that to some degree that this can be attributed to the machine-like nature of what Rat built there and the legacy that remains. The voices like Vitale, Williams, and Bilas (and other dook lovers in the media) are loud in the ears of players and parents (Currently we have no comparative voice save that of Kenny Smith in the media). And of course the domino effect of continued success and the concomitant exposure that brings.

We get our share of such things but at present there is no comparison -- and our exposure has not been as positive as has that of the school in derm (and I think that to a very small but noticeable degree fans contribute to that in plus or minus ways). @finesse makes a good point in mentioning the different standards to which a public and a private have historically been held. We've shot ourselves in the foot and had the BOG take aim at said feet over the past few years. No doubt just the same most of the recruits (and some of their parents) are completely tone-deaf to anything other than MONEY at present, but I have to imagine there is at least some effect.

Caleb Wilson is, by the way, a true boon to our image and it is imperative that he get as much exposure as possible in Carolina Blue.
 
stankeylegjones said:
I get what you're saying, you want the staff to have a tie with "Carolina Basketball." I disagree. We bring in many players every year who have zero tie to "Carolina Basketball," only to be a part of it and create it. To me, a "Carolina Basketball" team is not based on if the coaches went there, and I also don't think only those with "Carolina Basketball" can cultivate it.
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Yes, Carolina brings in players every year with no ties to the Carolina Basketball tradition, but the environment is already in place for them to become acclimated. If Carolina were to bring in someone with no ties to Carolina, with a new staff with no ties, and mostly new players with no ties, then the culture would be almost nonexistent. The history would still be there, but the culture wouldn't.

I understand that is an option that has to be considered when the time comes to hire a new coach, but then the Carolina basketball program becomes less special and more like Kentucky or UCLA with history but now only about winning at all costs. That day may one time come to Carolina, but I'm not looking forward to it.
 
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