Biorhythms for Carolina @Virginia: Noon Start

heel79 said:
No. The failure is historical standards. 95 percent of division 1 programs would take our last 5 years over theirs. You still have not said who you would have hired. I think that's a fair question.
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The failure isn't historical standards, it's current outcomes. 95% of D1 programs don't have our resources and our advantages in the 2020s and that's why the outcomes we've experienced under HD are not good enough, not because we were a great team in the 1950s or 1960s or 1970s or 1980s or 1990s or 2000s or 2010s.

I've given you the best answer I can give you regarding how I would have handled the transition from Roy to the next coach. As I'm not Bubba Cunningham and don't have the insight to know who were the realistic options we had in 2021 to acquire, it's impossible for me to say who I would have hired.
 
heel79 said:
You must really be pissed at Roy. I got a buddy who wanted Wes Miller. He doesn't talk about Wes much anymore but he has not warmed up to Hubert.
WWDD?
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Just for the record, he wanted Wes. Which seemed to me like a reasonable choice at the time (but look how that’s turned), yet IMO not as fitting a choice as HD.

And he said Roy was blinded by loyalty to HD and explicitly accused Roy of “nepotism” in hiring HD, equating it to the way “an unprepared kid out of HS takes over daddy’s farm.” Which I found incredibly disrespectful and denigrating to HD, and I’d bet Dean and Roy would find it offensive too.
 
BillOfRights said:
I don't think you can find 10 P5 coaches that are consistently satisfied with their team's effort.

I think fans' "goals" are often a product of selective memories. We romanticize the past without remembering the struggles. Coach Smith had down years. Coach Williams had down years. Nobody will ever go to 13 consecutive sweet sixteens again.

My assessment of Davis's improvement differs from yours. I see it in halftime adjustments. I see it in plays out of timeouts. I think it has made a difference in overall performance.

For me this season isn't nearly as frustrating as the Caleb Love/RJ Davis era. If you want to avoid frustration, I suggest a different hobby instead of college sports.

Several posts, including yours, have mentioned consistency. 18-23 year old American males is a bad place to look for consistency. As donbosco pointed out, COVID, NIL, and the portal have had a major impact. Kentucky, Kansas, UCLA, Purdue, and Michigan State have been inconsistent game to game and year to year. Carolina has won more ACC games in Coach Davis's tenure than all but 1 team. That is, if not consistent excellence, at least consistent really-goodness.

I get your frustration. I don't understand some lineup decisions. Last season I wanted more Withers at the 4 and Powell at the 3. I'm finally getting more Dixon and less Evans, but I still want more Powell. Lack of defense for 4 straight games. Poor 3FG and FT shooting. I understand, however, that there is only so much a coaching staff can do.

I also don't have any confidence that a new coach would be better. Who? Dusty May or TJ Otzelberger? Unless you think Mark Byington is ready and willing... Hard pass on the Nate Oats, Scott Drew and Todd Goldens of the world.

You may consider me a sunshine pumper. I don't. Maybe I have an advantage because i'm not surrounded by other Carolina fans. I'm not subject to groupthink in that regard. You guys (and ladies) are my Carolina family, and I appreciate the diversity of comments. I just think that this team is fun to watch, and I can't think of anyone realistically that I would rather have coaching this team than Coach Davis.
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I'll respond by telling a bit of a story. Over the previous 4 seasons, I've been frustrated by the performance of our basketball team over that time. Of course, some seasons have been better and others have been worse, but overall it's been frustrating with some moments of great excitement. For a lot of that time, I've recognized that the problem is that we don't play well in many cases, but I've recognized that it goes deeper than just wins and losses.

Earlier this season, I believe it was during the Ohio State game, it finally hit me the precise reason why I find the program so frustrating under HD. It's because under both Dean and Roy, the vast majority of the time, the team seemingly played "better than the sum of its parts". Even when the talent was lower than average and when the team struggled, there was still a sense that everyone - coaches and players - were working together to improve - personally and collectively - in a way that would lead to current and future team success.

I do not get that sense under HD with any regularity. In fact, I regularly see a team that (IMHO) plays less than the sum of its parts and whose individual skills and abilities project to greater collective performance than what we see on the court. And that is what bothers me the most about the HD era.

Under Dean and Roy, we had a program that - with a few down years included - made consistent winners out of those inconsistent 18-23 year old American males. And there are coaches now creating consistent winners out of those inconsistent 18-23 year old American males. All I want for our program is for us to have one of those coaches and then to give him every resource to help him succeed.

As far as you being a "sunshine pumper", I've very intentionally described the traits I see in that group (and used the name in a little tongue-in-cheek way) while also intentionally not putting any specific poster or group of posters into that group. If you feel it applies to you, that's a choice you can make, but I'm not labeling any specific poster(s) with that appellation. And, even for those who put themselves in that group, it's a choice that I think every fan gets to make for themself and it's a viable way to approach pulling for the team.
 
duluoz said:
Just for the record, he wanted Wes. Which seemed to me like a reasonable choice at the time (but look how that’s turned), yet IMO not as fitting a choice as HD.

And he said Roy was blinded by loyalty to HD and explicitly accused Roy of “nepotism” in hiring HD, equating it to the way “an unprepared kid out of HS takes over daddy’s farm.” Which I found incredibly disrespectful and denigrating to HD, and I’d bet Dean and Roy would find it offensive too.
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Thanks.
WWDD?
 
heel79 said:
You must really be pissed at Roy. I got a buddy who wanted Wes Miller. He doesn't talk about Wes much anymore but he has not warmed up to Hubert.
WWDD?
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I don't know that I'm "pissed" at Roy. I do deeply and sincerely wished he hadn't unilaterally taken over naming his successor and would have let Bubba run an actual search. (It's also interesting that you continue to ascribe negative thoughts/beliefs/emotions to me based on nothing more than something you've made up in your head.)

As far as the accusation made by another poster that I wanted Wes when we hired HD, that's only partially accurate. What I said at the time - and would maintain to this day - is that if we were absolutely bound to hire from within the Family then Wes was a better choice than HD because Wes already had HC experience (with decent success at lower levels of CBB) and wasn't going to be 100% on-the-job training. My strong preference, though, was a legitimate search that found us the best coach that would take the job as HC of Carolina Basketball.
 
SnoopRob said:
I don't know that I'm "pissed" at Roy. I do deeply and sincerely wished he hadn't unilaterally taken over naming his successor and would have let Bubba run an actual search. (It's also interesting that you continue to ascribe negative thoughts/beliefs/emotions to me based on nothing more than something you've made up in your head.)

As far as the accusation made by another poster that I wanted Wes when we hired HD, that's only partially accurate. What I said at the time - and would maintain to this day - is that if we were absolutely bound to hire from within the Family then Wes was a better choice than HD because Wes already had HC experience (with decent success at lower levels of CBB) and wasn't going to be 100% on-the-job training. My strong preference, though, was a legitimate search that found us the best coach that would take the job as HC of Carolina Basketball.
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Unfortunately looks like Wes will be available. I did not have a preference. But I figured Roy earned his say. As did Dean.
WWDD?
 
heel79 said:
Unfortunately looks like Wes will be available. I did not have a preference. But I figured Roy earned his say. As did Dean.
WWDD?
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It does, unfortunately, look like Wes will be leaving Cincinnati soon and not under good terms. I really hate it for him and hope he gets a chance elsewhere to resurrect his career.

I wouldn't have minded Roy having "a say" in who we hired next. In fact, it would have been appropriate. What bothered me was that his actions forced us away from a process likely to select from among the best available coaches to one that selected someone with little evidence of being ready for the position.
 
SnoopRob said:
someone with little evidence of being ready for the position.
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Curious — what evidence did scheyer have of being ready, more so than HD? What makes them different? Since you seem to be one of those who swings from his nuts daily.

Fewer years on the bench as the rat’s assistant (relative to HD’s longer tenure as Roy’s assistant), nonexistent NBA career (as opposed to HD’s long career under guys like Riley, Nellie, Van Gundy, Carlisle, Larry Brown, etc.), nonexistent media employment (as opposed to HD’s long and successful tenure at the highest level of CBB media analysis)?

Assistant coaches get promoted for big jobs, it happens plenty. Results vary, just as they have varied for Scheyer, HD, and for Wes in his own situation. It was never some kind of egregious nepotistic misguided mishandling of the situation by Roy nor by anyone. A “thorough search” held no more prospect for success than what transpired. It wasn’t a name picked out of a hat. And people reportedly weren’t lining up for the job.

And either way there’s a lot more luck and randomness involved along the way, in all the little details that ultimately go into W’s and L’s than many of you care to acknowledge, with both good and bad luck impacting teams. From what I’ve seen, HD has had more the latter than the former, and Scheyer the reverse, including inheriting a program that was already the template (along with UK) for how to succeed in the new landscape.
 
duluoz said:
Curious — what evidence did scheyer have of being ready, more so than HD? What makes them different? Since you seem to be one of those who swings from his nuts daily.

Fewer years on the bench as the rat’s assistant (relative to HD’s longer tenure as Roy’s assistant), nonexistent NBA career (as opposed to HD’s long career under guys like Riley, Nellie, Van Gundy, Carlisle, Larry Brown, etc.), nonexistent media employment (as opposed to HD’s long and successful tenure at the highest level of CBB media analysis)?

Assistant coaches get promoted for big jobs, it happens plenty. Results vary, just as they have varied for Scheyer, HD, and for Wes in his own situation. It was never some kind of egregious nepotistic misguided mishandling of the situation by Roy nor by anyone. A “thorough search” held no more prospect for success than what transpired. It wasn’t a name picked out of a hat. And people reportedly weren’t lining up for the job.

And either way there’s a lot more luck and randomness involved along the way, in all the little details that ultimately go into W’s and L’s than many of you care to acknowledge, with both good and bad luck impacting teams. From what I’ve seen, HD has had more the latter than the former, and Scheyer the reverse, including inheriting a program that was already the template (along with UK) for how to succeed in the new landscape.
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Not to mention a talent pipeline in place any NBA team would envy. And, yes, I'm highly suspicious about just how much Scheyer had to do with that.
 
The odds of UNC hiring a coach the caliber of Dean Smith or Roy Williams are close to zero.

Those gentlemen are two of the Top 10 basketball coaches of all-time.

If Hubert develops into a Top 100 all-time coach, we should count ourselves lucky. When Hubert is replaced, we should count ourselves lucky if his successor is Top 100.

We were extremely lucky to have Dean Smith and Roy Williams coach this program for over 50 seasons combined.
 
donbosco said:
Re: Player Development with Coach Davis...

Players that showed noticeable improvement (just off the top of my heard)

Cormac Ryan
Harrison Ingram
Bradey Manek
Armando Bacot
Ven-Allen Lubin

And this year...

Henri Veesaar
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Your post encouraged me to go and look at the numbers. Here's what I found:

Cormac - pretty much every single stat was lower at UNC than the year before

HI - pretty much all stats improved at UNC than the year before

Brady - pretty much all stats improved at UNC than the year before

Bacot - best statistical year was HD’s first year then numbers dropped the following year and then dropped further the following year

VAL - pretty much every single stat was lower at UNC than the year before; currently they’re up above his year at Vandy (year before UNC)

Henri - pretty much all stats improved at UNC than the year before

(Source: https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/)

Now, stats don't completely determine improvement or regression, so take this for what it's worth to you.
 
duluoz said:
Curious — what evidence did scheyer have of being ready, more so than HD? What makes them different? Since you seem to be one of those who swings from his nuts daily.

Fewer years on the bench as the rat’s assistant (relative to HD’s longer tenure as Roy’s assistant), nonexistent NBA career (as opposed to HD’s long career under guys like Riley, Nellie, Van Gundy, Carlisle, Larry Brown, etc.), nonexistent media employment (as opposed to HD’s long and successful tenure at the highest level of CBB media analysis)?

Assistant coaches get promoted for big jobs, it happens plenty. Results vary, just as they have varied for Scheyer, HD, and for Wes in his own situation. It was never some kind of egregious nepotistic misguided mishandling of the situation by Roy nor by anyone. A “thorough search” held no more prospect for success than what transpired. It wasn’t a name picked out of a hat. And people reportedly weren’t lining up for the job.

And either way there’s a lot more luck and randomness involved along the way, in all the little details that ultimately go into W’s and L’s than many of you care to acknowledge, with both good and bad luck impacting teams. From what I’ve seen, HD has had more the latter than the former, and Scheyer the reverse, including inheriting a program that was already the template (along with UK) for how to succeed in the new landscape.
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If you think I'm "one of those who swings from [Scheyer's] nuts daily", then you've either confused me with someone else or misunderstood my posts on the subject.

I don't think there was any significant evidence that Scheyer was more prepared to be a HC at a top program than HD, with the small pieces of evidence being that Scheyer was apparently instrumental in building the recruiting machine that dook created in the mid-2010s and that he'd been named Co-Associate Head Coach in 2018, which indicates he was likely higher on the dook org chart of assistant coaches than HD was under Roy.

I was surprised when Scheyer was named HC at dook when K announced his retirement. Like UNC, I think dook could have gotten a far more "ready from Day 1" HC than Scheyer if they'd have run a legitimate search rather than promoting an internal hire with no HC experience.

I think it's hard to evaluate coaches like HD and Scheyer who begin their careers at elite programs because it's hard to separate their own respective abilities from the advantages that the programs offer. On the whole, Scheyer has had good success at dook, but it's hard to discern how much of that is due to his actual skill level and how much of that is due to the talent being brought in by the recruiting machine that predated his tenure as HC.
 
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