Biorhythms for UNC v Michigan State Game, 4:30 Start

[Centerpiece]

I actually think Luka is fine defensively, he's certainly better than Evans. If you watch him he plays great denial defense and is almost always in the right spots. Evans can't stay in front of his man, gets beat all the time.

Evans was really poor tonight, hopefully he can turn it around. Seems like the staff started to run the offense through Luka in the 2nd, they may be losing faith in Evans.

Agree with this take. Missing Seth big time. Seth and Luka would be solid D on most nights. We played a tough team and we were missing our toughest player.

 

[finesse]

This really is the $64,000 question.

It started under Roy or maybe even Dean. Jimmy Black, King Rice, Dudley Bradley, Derrick Phelps and others couldn't ever shoot. We had others that were seriously streaky shooters. I sometimes think that the system makes many of the players just a little unsure if they should shoot and that affects them.

 

[finesse]

Agree with this take. Missing Seth big time. Seth and Luka would be solid D on most nights. We played a tough team and we were missing our toughest player.

The last two games, not having his defensive presence in the backcourt really hurt. This was going to be a tough game anyway.

 

[Bigs23]

It started under Roy or maybe even Dean. Jimmy Black, King Rice, Dudley Bradley, Derrick Phelps and others couldn't ever shoot. We had others that were seriously streaky shooters. I sometimes think that the system makes many of the players just a little unsure if they should shoot and that affects them.

Is these markedly different from other programs?

PGs who are great shooters and great facilitators are pretty rare.

 

[Centerpiece]

It started under Roy or maybe even Dean. Jimmy Black, King Rice, Dudley Bradley, Derrick Phelps and others couldn't ever shoot. We had others that were seriously streaky shooters. I sometimes think that the system makes many of the players just a little unsure if they should shoot and that affects them.

Probably.

 

[Centerpiece]

Is these markedly different from other programs?

PGs who are great shooters and great facilitators are pretty rare.

It’s the “pass up a good shot for a better shot” mantra.
Been around since Dean.

It leaves shooters second guessing themselves and it messes with their head “wow, should I shoot this fairly wide open outside shot, or should I pass it around hoping to dump it inside to a big for a 4 foot bank shot?”

 

[Centerpiece]

It’s the “pass up a good shot for a better shot” mantra.
Been around since Dean.

It leaves shooters second guessing themselves and it messes with their head “wow, should I shoot this fairly wide open outside shot, or should I pass it around hoping to dump it inside to a big for a 4 foot bank shot?”

And that works fine if the big hits the bank shot or there’s no turnover when trying to pass it around more

 

[Bigs23]

It’s the “pass up a good shot for a better shot” mantra.
Been around since Dean.

It leaves shooters second guessing themselves and it messes with their head “wow, should I shoot this fairly wide open outside shot, or should I pass it around hoping to dump it inside to a big for a 4 foot bank shot?”

I don’t know…Ford, Smith, Lawson, Paige, Berry, Felton, Anthony, Love/Davis…

 

[finesse]

Is these markedly different from other programs?

PGs who are great shooters and great facilitators are pretty rare.

I don't really know since I'm much more about us than college basketball as a whole.

It's more critical now. Until 15 years ago, we were also much more talented than about 80% of the people we played. Since then, balance has shifted, the dynamics of recruiting have changed and the separation of sports and academics in college has broadened. We've had some bad luck in that we have had some fatal flaws in team composition, either through the ease of transfer, coach/player conflict, (Not that new. I remember DES essentially informing Rozier not only was he not starting as a sophomore but that he wasn't playing at UNC) and/or failure to recruit and win by portal the players we need. This year it's what to do to back up the 5. Last year was how to not get dominated in the backcourt offensively by their guards.

 

[donbosco]

The University of North Carolina: Where shooters go to die.

Kyan Evans, 40% last year. Comes to UNC, can’t shoot.

Luka Bogavac: 40% in Euroleague. Comes to UNC, can’t shoot.

Jonathan Powell: 35% last year. Comes to UNC, can’t shoot.

Cade Tyson: Considered the best shooter in last year’s portal. Comes to UNC, can’t shoot. Leaves for Minnesota, suddenly learns to shoot again.

The question has to be asked, what the fuck is Hubert doing to kill the confidence of his perimeter shooters? One of the all-time great shooters doesn’t seem to have a clue how to coach shooting.

This issue has been floated from time to time over the years. I always think of Max Owens or Michael Brooker when it resurfaces. Both were sharpshooters who never panned out in earlier times.

Early Dean Smith squads hit a percentages that were phenomenal but that was pre-shot clock and three-pointer.

Decades ago a team would have a ‘specialist’ from deep (Brad Hoffman comes to mind) and everyone else shot from 18’ and in. With the Trey came the Calabrias and the Braddocks. As adaptations were made we got the Donald Williams’ and the Wayne Ellingtons. I wonder how many busts there were along the way - recruited as shooters - who we have forgotten or never really knew about?

 

[SmilingJack]

I appreciate the comments from Izzo saying that these kind of games in November helps teams get better later. Also that social media has players thinking they are better than they are so they can get a little more humble and work harder. Couldn’t watch but sounded like the foul trouble in the first half and taking/missing too many three’s in the second half were the biggest culprits? I always say it’s better to lose in November than March but yeah we have work to do!

 

[Centerpiece]

I don’t know…Ford, Smith, Lawson, Paige, Berry, Felton, Anthony, Love/Davis…

Oh yeah, those guys! But I was speaking to that other list of guys from somebody else's post. We certainly can't say Love shied away from any shot! haha. "I shoot when I'm hot, I shoot when I'm cold. Imma shooter coach!" hahaha.

Plus that list of yours includes cats who stayed and played 4 years (except Cole and Caleb) for Dean or Roy and they had ample opportunity to learn what coach meant... which is indeed a strategy I love and suggest. But those cats NEW when to shoot and when to pass and what would please the coach, they didn't second guess themselves. It's hard to argue with 2 hall of fame coaches with a gazillion W's and multiple Natty's.

But for a portal guy coming in, or a frosh or soph it can be tough to figure it out. ALSO, most of those guys you named had some serious quality players around them... they knew throwing the ball around would lead to a closer/easier shot. And they knew the ball wouldn't be turned over. It's hard to argue with that $64,000 question posed by Wayne and backed up by finesse... I was just spit-balling for an answer.

What's your take on why so many "so-called" good shooters play under Davis and under perform in outside shooting %?

 

[Icky Mettle]

Oh yeah, those guys! But I was speaking to that other list of guys from somebody else's post. We certainly can't say Love shied away from any shot! haha. "I shoot when I'm hot, I shoot when I'm cold. Imma shooter coach!" hahaha.

Plus that list of yours includes cats who stayed and played 4 years (except Cole and Caleb) for Dean or Roy and they had ample opportunity to learn what coach meant... which is indeed a strategy I love and suggest. But those cats NEW when to shoot and when to pass and what would please the coach, they didn't second guess themselves. It's hard to argue with 2 hall of fame coaches with a gazillion W's and multiple Natty's.

But for a portal guy coming in, or a frosh or soph it can be tough to figure it out. ALSO, most of those guys you named had some serious quality players around them... they knew throwing the ball around would lead to a closer/easier shot. And they knew the ball wouldn't be turned over. It's hard to argue with that $64,000 question posed by Wayne and backed up by finesse... I was just spit-balling for an answer.

What's your take on why so many "so-called" good shooters play under Davis and under perform in outside shooting %?

With regard to your last paragraph, perhaps that’s more perception than reality in most cases, and in other cases (e.g., Cade) it’s simply a transfer who previously played a much less competitive schedule struggling to adjust to better competition. But take a look at the following:
Brady Manek shot the best 3-point % of his career under Davis (that was the only season of his career he shot over 40%).
Harrison Ingram shot the best 3-point % of his career under Davis by about 7%.
Cormac Ryan shot the second-best 3-point % of his career under Davis (the .407 he shot two years before coming to UNC was the anomaly).
While RJ’s 3-point % dropped off some his fifth year (drop offs happen), it improved by more than 4% after Davis took over for Roy and then, other than his fifth year, improved every year under Davis. And he was very dangerous from outside his true senior year (outside of that Alabama game).
Caleb Love’s 3-point % improved by about 5% after Davis took over Roy and then improved even more the season after that.
Jae’lyn Withers didn’t have a lot of 3-point attempts throughout most of his career and was very inconsistent from year to year, but his fifth year Davis gave him more of a green light and he had his best 3-point % of his career at .443 (an excellent percentage).
I believe Ian Jackson’s .395 was the second highest 3-point % any UNC freshman has shot after Kerwin Walton’s 42% (Walton’s % dropped after Davis took over for Roy, but so did his playing time). Jackson is shooting roughly the same % this season under Pitino (.393).

As for this season, it’s too early to make a call. We’ll see how guys are shooting by the end of the season.

 

[wmheel1287]

Is these markedly different from other programs?

PGs who are great shooters and great facilitators are pretty rare.

I would say it is markedly different from the modern approach to the game. Sometimes by attempting to honor Coach Smith, I think our coaches forget that at heart Coach Smith was an innovator who changed approach to fit the dynamic of the time.

 

[Bigs23]

I don't really know since I'm much more about us than college basketball as a whole.

It's more critical now. Until 15 years ago, we were also much more talented than about 80% of the people we played. Since then, balance has shifted, the dynamics of recruiting have changed and the separation of sports and academics in college has broadened. We've had some bad luck in that we have had some fatal flaws in team composition, either through the ease of transfer, coach/player conflict, (Not that new. I remember DES essentially informing Rozier was he not starting as a sophomore but that he wasn't playing at UNC) and/or failure to recruit and win by portal the players we need. This year it's what to do to back up the 5. Last year was how to not get dominated in the backcourt offensively by their guards.

A

Oh yeah, those guys! But I was speaking to that other list of guys from somebody else's post. We certainly can't say Love shied away from any shot! haha. "I shoot when I'm hot, I shoot when I'm cold. Imma shooter coach!" hahaha.

Plus that list of yours includes cats who stayed and played 4 years (except Cole and Caleb) for Dean or Roy and they had ample opportunity to learn what coach meant... which is indeed a strategy I love and suggest. But those cats NEW when to shoot and when to pass and what would please the coach, they didn't second guess themselves. It's hard to argue with 2 hall of fame coaches with a gazillion W's and multiple Natty's.

But for a portal guy coming in, or a frosh or soph it can be tough to figure it out. ALSO, most of those guys you named had some serious quality players around them... they knew throwing the ball around would lead to a closer/easier shot. And they knew the ball wouldn't be turned over. It's hard to argue with that $64,000 question posed by Wayne and backed up by finesse... I was just spit-balling for an answer.

What's your take on why so many "so-called" good shooters play under Davis and under perform in outside shooting %?

id have to see the actual data to have an educated take on it.

In some cases it could be moving up in competition. Plus 3 point shooting tends to be a somewhat volatile stat.

 

[Icky Mettle]

A

id have to see the actual data to have an educated on it.

In some cases it could be moving up in cost competition. Plus 3 point shooting tends to be a somewhat volatile stat.

3-point shooting really is a volatile stat. Among college players with multiple attempts per game throughout their careers, there are very few who shoot the same percentage each year and very few who improve their percentage every single year. Most 4-year (or 5-year) players have at least one year where their percentage drops.

 

[finesse]

3-point shooting really is a volatile stat. Among college players with multiple attempts per game throughout their careers, there are very few who shoot the same percentage each year and very few who improve their percentage every single year. Most 4-year (or 5-year) players have at least one year where their percentage drops.

There's so little margin for error. You can be cruising along shooting 57 for 150 for 38% and two 1 for 6 games which isn't a terrible slump will drop you over a point and a half. That's a fair number of threes. Probably put you in the top 5%. You can imagine how much a single off game can affect a lesser shooter.

 

[Heelsandeers]

We knew not having an obvious primary ball handler and initiator would be an issue

Can Evans not shoot because he’s trying to play PG when he’s not one? Is the answer playing Dixon more and hoping he develops quickly?

Seth will solve a lot of but not all the defensive issues. This team needs to go all in on being elite on that end

 

[Rock]