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But you allude to unnecessary risk, which is also not supported by data. So your argument doesn’t require data but your opponent’s does?
“Black peoples jobs”
- Thread starter theel4life
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superrific
Iconic Member
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No, TarSpiel's claim is not a guess because the data sources used to assess this question are not what you think they are. Try this for starters (it's the first google result, FYI)
"Going beyond existing research, we utilize data from the Texas Department of Public Safety, which checks and records the immigration status of all arrestees throughout the state. Contrary to public perception, we observe considerably lower felony arrest rates among undocumented immigrants compared to legal immigrants and native-born US citizens and find no evidence that undocumented criminality has increased in recent years."
And when you say, "illegal immigration is too high and it makes us unsafe," and then say, "whether or not my claim was true, we have too many" that is in fact denying reality matters. It's like when people say, "Roy would be a better coach if he would just call timeout," and then they are presented with solid evidence that calling TO in the middle of a run actually has no effect on game outcomes, and they respond, "well, he should still call more timeouts." They are saying that reality doesn't matter to them. They have decided, without any evidence, that Roy should call more timeouts.
The most insidious thing is the repetition. See, if you would admit that you were wrong about this or about calling timeouts, then maybe the next time you feel the need to make that complaint, you'd remember that it was in fact false. But that's not what you do. You just drop the subject, cling to your errant beliefs, and then we have to rinse and repeat later. Over and over again, the same zombie BS keeps rising.
To be clear: YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT CRIME AND ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. It is not a matter on which reasonable minds disagree. We went through this on the old board too, and back then you were challenging math. Have you accepted that yet, or are you still struggling with 5th grade math?
ecgriff
Well-Known Member
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- 55
We should want to know the background of as many people coming across the border as possible. If these are how many gang members and illegals with criminal records that have been caught just this fiscal year,how many make it in the country every year undetected?
Why wouldn’t you want to stop as many of these people as possible from entering the country? The rate of crime compared to American citizens is irrelevant when debating border security because you know the types of people I mentioned will be mixed in. You can prevent innocent Americans being victims of crime. It shouldn’t be a radical opinion to say we need a strong border and do everything we can to know who is coming across the border.
lawtig02
Esteemed Member
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- 699
We do want a strong border. Why won’t your side support it?
haroldminer
Distinguished Member
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- 282
What types of questions should be asked when people cross the border?
That should do well for tourism.
Do you people realize that most people just drive or fly over the border. Not clear how a wall stops that.
superrific
Iconic Member
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1. Those were people who were stopped at the border under our current system. They didn't make it in.
2. The answer to your question about how many made it in undetected is, "we don't know." Because they weren't detected. The answer to this question is not "a lot." It could be zero. So that is not actually a point in your favor, though you will think it is.
3. 15000 people with "criminal convictions." What types of convictions? There were 26 murderers. That's very few. I don't care if someone who was convicted ten years ago for a DUI comes in. Do you? Unless we know what those 15K people were accused of, we can't evaluate the risk.
4. Also, keep in mind that the people seeking asylum are often people who were convicted for political reasons. That's why they are seeking asylum. As CRHeel has pointed out, there has been a steep increase of migrants from places like Venezuela and Nicaragua, where the justice systems are often used as tools by authoritarians.
5. I've explained before why keeping low-crime populations out does not actually prevent Americans from being victims of crime. I'm not going to do it again. It's very simple math and it's really a shame that you can't or won't grasp it. What you are missing is that the immigrants themselves can be victims of crime. But that doesn't fit your narrative so you pretend as if doesn't happen, which is why you end up arguing with arithmetic.