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So what would be better than an "okay" season ? I'm still trying to discern what the bar is for a better than "okay season" among the "fire Hubie" Tar Heel nation.
College Basketball 2025-26 Season Thread - Kansas State fires Tang
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no worries...
For me, this discussion reminds me of being on Tar Pit where fans thought anything less than 10 wins a season meant we should fire the coach.
Bigs23
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His first 2 at UNC didn't count.
BillOfRights
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He went to court to get an injunction against the NCAA who denied a red shirt season due to a misdiagnosed injury.
Heelsandeers
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I think the distinction between UNC and programs ranked a few thousandths of a point higher in T-rank is utterly meaningless
That a team like St. Mary’s grades out so well is a good example. They might have fielded one team legitimately better than UNC over HD’s tenure. They certainly don’t have more high profile wins or NCAAT wins
There are only about 6 or so programs that have separated themselves from the field. I do think UNC should be among those teams going forward
They simply haven’t put together cohesive enough rosters and dealt with a season of apparent chemistry issues
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This
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I mean this kindly, but your post is all "ifs and buts and maybes".
We only have 1 player who had ever played in a dook game because HD only retained one player who had previously played in a dook game. That's on HD and it's not some grand excuse.
Barring injuries, this team has not been a top 10 team outside of the antiquated polls. We have much better ways of assessing team results at this point and Carolina was a fringe top-25 in the best of those models and, IIRC, not above 15th in any of them even before injures (outside of Trimble).
We're certainly losing 2 of our 3 best players next year and there's a good chance we lose all 3. Neither of our freshmen recruits are expected to be immediate program changers and so we're going to have to recruit the best parts of next year's team from the portal. That's a tough ask and an area where we should be doing better if we're going into year 6 of a particular coach.
We've had 5 years of HD and we still struggle with many of the same major issues that we were struggling with in the first half of his first season. While HD has shown growth, it has been too slow and too inconsistent. And each year we plod along seeking to be merely better than "good", the door closes a little more on ever being elite again.
To put poor Voltaire's mind at ease, those of us wanting change aren't seeking perfection, we simply want a coach with the proven ability to consistently field a team that plays hard, smart, & together and the better - but not perfect - results that come with it.
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When you say that UNC "should be among those teams going forward", do you mean that that should be the future standard we judge the program and its coaches by or that you expect Carolina should be among the teams that do separate themselves (or both, I guess)?
stankeylegjones
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I think given that the sample size is around 180 games those thousandths are more than meaningless. But, I don't see the need here to argue over them. Yes, there will always be an outlier or few, but even removing them I don't see how anyone can argue that UNC has been a top-15 program during HD's tenure.
Having said that, I do completely agree with you that UNC should be among the 5-6 top programs going forward. I'll pose another question to you, what have you seen from HD and his staff that gives you a realistic belief that he will get the program to that status moving forward from today?
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I would say that Carolina, this year, is a good team, but that we're "simply good".
A season that would put me, personally, more at ease with HD would be a team that spends the entire season in the top 10, is in the thick of the ACC regular season end through the final dook game, makes the ACCT final, gets a top 2 (or, at worst, 3) seed in the NCAAT and the plays up to that seed by making a minimum of the E8.
But the bigger issue I have with HD's coaching isn't really the results, it's that we're never consistently a team that plays hard, smart, and together. We all too often struggle with slow starts to games or we have significant stretches where we play pretty badly within games or we finish poorly. We also have way too many stretches where we play well for even 2-5 games to follow that up with a stretch of 2-5 games of overall pretty poor play. No team is perfect and every team has bad stretches during some games or parts of seasons, but under HD we have been far, far too inconsistent, both within games and across games.
The latter inconsistency issue is my biggest problem with HD's coaching. And I'd bet that if he worked out that issue with any real improvement then nearly every other issue related to the outcomes of our games and seasons would largely be addressed. But over 5 seasons I've seen very little proof that HD has any real solution for the inconsistency that plagues us.
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I am an HD guy
No we are not on track to see a top 6 type program-and we have the want to , and history, and money to do it
Still hoping for something this NCAA tournament
Wishing and hoping
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It's going to take recognizing athletes as employees, allowing them to unionize, and creating a collective bargaining agreement (barring an outlier event like the Federal government stepping in to put different laws in place, which I think is unlikely and, given the current Federal government, scary).
I agree that better rules are needed, but the courts have made it plain that the NCAA does not have any real power to oversee anything beyond the actions of the member universities of association and so something will have to happen to bring the players into a legal agreement with the schools for anything to change.
It is.
But, does recruiting in recent years resemble recruiting from 1975-to NIL and portal days?
Is it about relationships or is it about $$$?
Dan Meagher. Danny Ferry. Christian Laettner. Chris Collins. Wojo. Grayson Allen. Take’em Trajan. Scheyerface.
stankeylegjones
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Your posts brought something up that I've been thinking about off and on, just never posted. And, this is in no way directed at you.
We are all HD guys. There is not one UNC fan that thinks it would be cooler to win with someone else outside of the family. It would be so magical to see HD have our program rolling and where we've been historically. How cool would that story be: UNC continues it's on-court dominance in the sport, and has done it with all in-the-family leaders, and currently with a leader who played, and learned, under the greatest to ever do it, and learned from another greatest of all time, all UNC people. That is a fucking awesome story, and I can't think of (m)any other programs, including all sports, who can say that.
The problem is, HD doesn't have us in a spot that has become standard for UNC basketball. I think the split we're seeing between the "two camps" is that some are fine not meeting the UNC-standard, as long as the program is being lead by someone from within the family, while others would prefer the program to meet the standard set by Dean, Roy, all of the other coaches, and the players, regardless of if the person leading the program is from within the family or not.
For me, I think those that set the standard would rather the program live up to that standard (on and off the court), and they realize that everyone starts outside of the family before they become a part of it.
Nah. Read IC. Read UNC fan groups on Facebook. I have a buddy. UNC grad. Hour after we beat dook he says on text group thread this win will be remembered like UNC win over Miami in football in 2004. Could not enjoy fur an hour.
The race element is real. I live in Lumbee land. Lumbees love the heels. Y'all can take it from there
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Real with who? It’s nothing I’ve heard at all. I’m not sure what you’re saying about the Lumbees.
BillOfRights
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There are more than 2 camps, but I disagree with the way you divided them. I don't know anyone who is fine with not meeting the standard. I don't know anyone who thinks Carolina is meeting that standard.
I think there are 1) those who believe we have enough evidence to know that Coach Davis is not the right guy, and 2) those who agree that Carolina has not met the standard over the last 5 years, but believe we don't have enough evidence, due to transitions with NIL, portal, etc, to know that Davis is not the right guy or that the standard is a reasonable expectation with the changes in the sport. There are also 3) those who didn't like the hire and will never believe he is or will become the right guy. Maybe there are 4) those who want to make a change but don't think there is a home run coach or don't trust the current administration to handle the situation well.
We're all pulling for Carolina's greatest success. Go Heels!