Dehumanizing people should not be allowed here.

Bobfripp said:
illegally entering the U.S. (8 U.S.C. § 1325) is a misdemeanor, while illegally re-entering after deportation (8 U.S.C. § 1326) is a felony.

So they're aren't felons (unless they are deported and re-enter the US).
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Agree. I was just mentioning that we already have words (nouns) that are used to reference people who are criminals that are basically identical to using "illegal", though illegal, as a noun, doesn't exist in the English language.
 
ZenMode said:
Kind of like you can commit a felony, or your actions can be felonious, but you can't be a felon.
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As I used to tell my students, thanks for the clarifying example.

Indeed, "felon" is an accepted noun. And it narrowly references specifically a thing that a person did, a specific action falling within a set of felony offenses. When you hear, "so-and-so is a felon," that gives a pretty good idea of who that person is, what he did. It's not pejorative.

"Illegal" is an adjective. There is no noun form. Unlike felon, it attaches a quality to a person, not a reference to that person's actions. To call someone an illegal is not accurate, it's almost always meant pejoratively, and it purports to describe their entire existence as one of lawlessness and danger. The obvious parallel isn't "felon," but rather "deplorable."

If you use illegal as a noun to describe others, then you have no grounds to object to being called a deplorable. Personally, I don't use either of those words as nouns. I don't think it's right to dehumanize people.
 
ZenMode said:
Agree. I was just mentioning that we already have words (nouns) that are used to reference people who are criminals that are basically identical to using "illegal", though illegal, as a noun, doesn't exist in the English language.
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They are not basically identical. This will likely be hard for you to understand, so I won't elaborate further than I did.

Let's just say that there's a reason why English doesn't have a noun "illegal." Or "deplorable." That's why we don't have a noun "illegal." Or a noun, "deplorable."

Thank you for bringing this example to the discussion. It helps more clearly articulate the issue.
 
superrific said:
They are not basically identical. This will likely be hard for you to understand, so I won't elaborate further than I did.

Let's just say that there's a reason why English doesn't have a noun "illegal." Or "deplorable." That's why we don't have a noun "illegal." Or a noun, "deplorable."

Thank you for bringing this example to the discussion. It helps more clearly articulate the issue.
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Sorry, I was licking the window on the short bus on my way to school and missed your post. Can you type again, but a little slower, so I can try to keep up?
 
superrific said:
They are not basically identical. This will likely be hard for you to understand, so I won't elaborate further than I did.

Let's just say that there's a reason why English doesn't have a noun "illegal." Or "deplorable." That's why we don't have a noun "illegal." Or a noun, "deplorable."

Thank you for bringing this example to the discussion. It helps more clearly articulate the issue.
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C'mon Super...

You want to take away me and Hillary's permission to characterize half the Trump supporters as a basket of deplorables ?

How dare you !
 
ZenMode said:
Sorry, I was licking the window on the short bus on my way to school and missed your post. Can you type again, but a little slower, so I can try to keep up?
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He's calling you an idiot without bothering to look up in a dictionary if illegal or deplorable is a noun. For folks too dumb to google, illegal is an adj and a noun according to the Oxford English Dictionary and Miriam Webster. Deplorable is an adj and noun according to Oxford English dictionary and an adjective according to Miriam Webster.

Next, he is going to call me an idiot for using a dictionary to be the authority of the English language and then will torture out some convoluted 9 paragraph reason why he isn't wrong.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
For folks too dumb to read,
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Here is the entry from Oxford on illegal. Did you maybe miss one of the words here. I've added emphasis for you. Dumb ass.

adjective
adjective: illegal
  1. contrary to or forbidden by law, especially criminal law.
    "illegal drugs" [about 20 synonyms listed]
noun
derogatory • North American
noun: illegal; plural noun: illegals
  1. a person present in a country without official authorization.


 
gtyellowjacket said:
He's calling you an idiot without bothering to look up in a dictionary if illegal or deplorable is a noun. For folks too dumb to google, illegal is an adj and a noun according to the Oxford English Dictionary and Miriam Webster. Deplorable is an adj and noun according to Oxford English dictionary and an adjective according to Miriam Webster.

Next, he is going to call me an idiot for using a dictionary to be the authority of the English language and then will torture out some convoluted 9 paragraph reason why he isn't wrong.
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He was calling me an idiot because he thinks not agreeing, or not engaging in his attempt to sidetrack a conversation, means not understanding.... and because he's a chronic pompous ass.
 
ZenMode said:
He was calling me an idiot because he thinks . . . not engaging in his attempt to sidetrack a conversation
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LOL. Right.

Look, I value the truth and intelligent discussion. So when I see stupid stuff or misinformation, I call it out. It doesn't matter who posted it. In fact, on the rare occasions that I post something stupid, I criticize myself and call myself out.

If you would post less stupid stuff, then you'd get less criticism. I didn't make you carry on about diversity in Congress in ignorance of the Voting Rights Act. I didn't make you talk about race as if the experience of race in America is just about melanin in skin. I didn't make you say that hiring a woman versus a man is just a question of different genitalia (note the irony given your stance on trans, but whatever). You say stupid shit all the fucking time. I'm far from the only person who calls you out on it.

Don't want to be criticized? Then don't spout stupidity. Ask questions when you don't know something, instead of making asinine assumptions that are completely wrong.
 
superrific said:
LOL. Right.

Look, I value the truth and intelligent discussion. So when I see stupid stuff or misinformation, I call it out. It doesn't matter who posted it. In fact, on the rare occasions that I post something stupid, I criticize myself and call myself out.

If you would post less stupid stuff, then you'd get less criticism. I didn't make you carry on about diversity in Congress in ignorance of the Voting Rights Act. I didn't make you talk about race as if the experience of race in America is just about melanin in skin. I didn't make you say that hiring a woman versus a man is just a question of different genitalia (note the irony given your stance on trans, but whatever). You say stupid shit all the fucking time. I'm far from the only person who calls you out on it.

Don't want to be criticized? Then don't spout stupidity. Ask questions when you don't know something, instead of making asinine assumptions that are completely wrong.
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Using those characteristics as a reference, and comparing them to things like hair color, is meant to show how ridiculous the whole DEI circus actually is. YOU nitpick irrelevant details, like talking about melanin and genitalia, to redirect and, I believe, make yourself seem smart.

Either way, nobody is concerned about Ernie Els being discriminated against on the PGA tour, so melanin IS absolutely a surface level, irrelevant factor that the Democratic Party loves to focus on.... because some of you just seem like always having someone that needs saving.
 
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superrific said:
1. Do you think it requires a herculean effort for me to seem smart?
2. Isn't it better for you that I'm smart? Because if I'm not smart, what does that say about you?
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1. Yet another attempt at reminding us how smart you think you are. 😂
 
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superrific said:
Here is the entry from Oxford on illegal. Did you maybe miss one of the words here. I've added emphasis for you. Dumb ass.

adjective
adjective: illegal
  1. contrary to or forbidden by law, especially criminal law.
    "illegal drugs" [about 20 synonyms listed]
noun
derogatory • North American
noun: illegal; plural noun: illegals
  1. a person present in a country without official authorization.
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What word are you emphasizing? Adjective? Noun? illegal? illegals? derogatory?

Which word do you believe indicates that "English doesn't have a noun "illegal." ?"
 
Words have been "added" to the English language according to various dictionaries. "Ain't" isn't word, but there it is in most dictionaries. Same with illegal as a noun. It traditionally wasn't considered a word, so it's hard to really consider it to be one.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
What word are you emphasizing? derogatory?
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Yes. Saying that there is a derogatory noun form of illegal does not improve the analogy to "felon," which isn't a derogatory term.

Illegal is a noun the same way n* is a word. In a technical sense, sure. But saying either one communicates information.
 
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