DEI and Misogynistic & Foreign/Other Political Attacks on Harris

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ZenMode said:
Yes. I would prefer that people are chosen on criteria that matter, not superficial criteria that we are born with and have no control over, like gender and skin color.
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this seems pretty naive.

The whole point of DEI/Affirmative Action is that, by and large, we do not live in a meritocracy. We’re fed the myth that we do, but we don’t. And we’re fed the myth that everyone has an equal chance to succeed, but they don’t.

I’d prefer what you describe. But it’s not reality. Not in any sector of American culture.

Not in education.
Not in housing.
Not in health care.
Not in employment.
 
ZenMode said:
This isn't about me or you or any other individual. You mean nothing to me. You are a name on a screen. Your opinion of me means nothing to me.

This is about intellectual honesty vs intellectual dishonesty. This is about acknowledging what we ALL know is true - DEI and Affirmative Action are going to raise questions in peoples' minds about why a POC (just not Asian) got into MIT or some other elite college, It's being able to acknowledge that an AA admission may have taken the spot of another student. It's being able to acknowledge those things while still defending DEI/AA without circling the wagons and attack those who are saying what we all know to be true.
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You know, your constant responses seem to indicate that his opinion does mean something to you. :unsure: 😁
 
mpaer said:
HIstorically gender and Skin color have dominated Even in the 60s UNC was basically all white and all Boys
The idea was to be the University of the People-not just White boys
So our trend has been to be more inclusive, more Diverse. And it is working. We now have Black girls going to college Thats good
Now it is still true that if both of your parents went to college and you go to a well funded School system and you come from a stable two parent family that can stay on you to do school work-well the stats say you will easily get into college. If your parents did not go to college and your school is not well funded -well its an uphill battle.
So the "criteria" if you get rid of what we have done the last few decades is "Did you come from a two parent college educated family " Not much of a meritocracy
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Again, I'm not taking a position for or against DEI/AA. Past injustices certainly seem to justify some kind race-based initiatives . I'm just saying that it is a fact that race-based initiatives like DEI/AA will result in questions being asked. Was Ketanji Brown Jackson the best and most qualified SCOTUS option? Maybe, but the more you narrow your options with superficial criteria, the less likely it is that you'll get the best and most qualified. People aren't dumb. That question will be asked. Imagine if Biden had said he wanted a justice that was born in the summer, on the West Coast and is left handed. Lots of questions would be asked, right?
 
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haroldminer said:
That’s a nice utopia you describe. How do you propose to get there without any encouragement? There US never been a meritocracy. Must be nice being born into positions of power.

For someone reason nobody complained about Trump filling his posts with his kids.
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Again, I'm not against DEI/AA. Hopefully we all want to live in a world where skin color is as irrelevant as eye color.

FYI, tons of people complained about Trump filling positions with his family. Where have you been living?
 
ZenMode said:
This isn't about me or you or any other individual. You mean nothing to me. You are a name on a screen. Your opinion of me means nothing to me.

This is about intellectual honesty vs intellectual dishonesty. It's being able to acknowledge that an AA admission may have taken the spot of another student.
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If you are all about intellectual honesty, then start with that latter sentence there.

An "AA admission" did not take the "spot of another student." You're telling a rhetorical thievery narrative, in which the supposedly white students have spots and then these minorities come in and snatch them up. And then you wonder why this "truth" -- to be clear, it isn't truth at all, it's just your framing -- is off-putting to people. You're just recycling old, noxious narratives about minorities. "There goes the neighborhood" and all that.

The reality is that the spots belong to nobody. They are opportunities, and they are distributed as the schools or employers deem fit. If the school or employer wants to use DEI to change the contours of the applicant pool, that works to nobody's disadvantage. If the school wants to race-norm SAT scores in distributing spots, that's its choice. Don't like it? Go to another school. Whether the school is permitted under our laws and/or constitution to use such methods has nothing to do with this rhetoric of taking someone's spot.
 
superrific said:
If you are all about intellectual honesty, then start with that latter sentence there.

An "AA admission" did not take the "spot of another student." You're telling a rhetorical thievery narrative, in which the supposedly white students have spots and then these minorities come in and snatch them up. And then you wonder why this "truth" -- to be clear, it isn't truth at all, it's just your framing -- is off-putting to people. You're just recycling old, noxious narratives about minorities. "There goes the neighborhood" and all that.

The reality is that the spots belong to nobody. They are opportunities, and they are distributed as the schools or employers deem fit. If the school or employer wants to use DEI to change the contours of the applicant pool, that works to nobody's disadvantage. If the school wants to race-norm SAT scores in distributing spots, that's its choice. Don't like it? Go to another school. Whether the school is permitted under our laws and/or constitution to use such methods has nothing to do with this rhetoric of taking someone's spot.
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I agree, the spots belong to nobody, but the final make-up of admissions is different with DEI. Admissions aren't unlimited. Scholarships aren't unlimited. Openings in any given school/area of study aren't unlimited. Dorm rooms aren't unlimited. There have been, and will be, situations where a non-DEI student is impacted by a DEI selection. It would be impossible for it to not happen.

This isn't about only white people, unless you consider Asians to be white.
 
ZenMode said:
I agree, the spots belong to nobody, but the final make-up of admissions is different with DEI. Admissions aren't unlimited. Scholarships aren't unlimited. Openings in any given school/area of study aren't unlimited. Dorm rooms aren't unlimited. There have been, and will be, situations where a non-DEI student is impacted by a DEI selection. It would be impossible for it to not happen.

This isn't about only white people, unless you consider Asians to be white.
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White people sure do like to complain a lot about the belief of losing a touch of their entitlements.
 
haroldminer said:
You assume that non white studies aren’t as qualified.
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Wow....you are the dishonest one, aren't you.

I assume, because it's true, that DEI/AA puts kids into universities where they otherwise would not be accepted.

That's the ENTIRE point, ya know.
 
ZenMode said:
Again, I'm not taking a position for or against DEI/AA. Past injustices certainly seem to justify some kind race-based initiatives . I'm just saying that it is a fact that race-based initiatives like DEI/AA will result in questions being asked. Was Ketanji Brown Jackson the best and most qualified SCOTUS option? Maybe, but the more you narrow your options with superficial criteria, the less likely it is that you'll get the best and most qualified. People aren't dumb. That question will be asked. Imagine if Biden had said he wanted a justice that was born in the summer, on the West Coast and is left handed. Lots of questions would be asked, right?
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DEI is not a “race based initiative” you braying donkey. You don’t even know what it is.
 
ZenMode said:
Wow....you are the dishonest one, aren't you.

I assume, because it's true, that DEI/AA puts kids into universities where they otherwise would not be accepted. That's the ENTIRE point, ya know.
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why was the previous criteria for acceptance more correct? You seem to believe it is more perfect.
 
ZenMode said:
Wow....you are the dishonest one, aren't you.

I assume, because it's true, that DEI/AA puts kids into universities where they otherwise would not be accepted.

That's the ENTIRE point, ya know.
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Nah
 
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