Dictator Trump

[DougDaBroadcasta]

We've repeatedly tried "congressional oversight, outside auditors, regulations" and, I would add, blue ribbon commissions to try and cut wasteful and fraudulent spending with zero impact. We're 36T in debt - and rising. It's about time the Executive Branch exercised some control and oversight over its administrative agencies. Elon and the tech bros are simply an instrument to achieve this goal. There's ZERO evidence that he's doing this for financial gain or that he is misusing private data for her personal use as Dems allege.

What's the deal with the Elon hatred? He's the world's richest man for a reason. He's produced more "things" that benefit society than any other person the last 50 years and he's not done yet. It's not like he's some Wall Street billionaire simply moving money around making other rich people richer. Plus, he almost single handily rescued the USA's space program and his services are needed to rescue NASA astronauts currently stranded in space.

This is the thing about Elon you don't get.

He is a smart INVESTOR! He didn't make shit!

He didn't make Tesla--he bought it.
He didn't make SpaceX--he bought it.
He didn't make Twitter--he bought it.

He's an apartheid trust fund baby that makes good decisions with money. He hasn't produced ANYTHING! He makes smart investments!

 

[Carolina Fever]

Well, we shouldn't be trying to meet in the middle with fascists who want to be a dictator.

 

[DougDaBroadcasta]

they most certainly be a part of the executive branch if trump wants them to be. He has the authority to hire them and appoint them to do whatever he instructs them to do as long as its legal. If that means identifying wasteful spending then he has the right.

Just want to make sure you understand what you're saying.

You're advocating for a president to create a division of government out of thin air, and then give them unprecedented access to anything they want.

I don't ever want to hear you say anything positive about the Constitution ever again. EVER AGAIN. Because people like you want it burned in a pyre. And we're not going to let you.

 

[CFordUNC]

Has zero to do with Elon, Trump, etc.
It's all about power. The Dems lost it so Elon and Trump are the first two in line to blast for what they are doing. That's the nature of the beast in big time politics from now on.
Never will the two ever meet in the middle again.

I don't think that's true. Elon and Trump are flagrantly and blatantly committing what is likely to be unconstitutional abuse of executive branch power at the expense of the legislative branch, while also declaring their intention to defy the judicial branch, as well. That's the problem, as I see it- not that they are the brunt of the ire of the left simply because the left lost an election, but because they are wantonly abusing executive power in a way that is unconstitutional at best, and perhaps criminal at worst.

I like to think I'm a pretty reasonable voter. I'll vote for Republicans just as quickly as I'll vote for Democrats, and vice versa, if their policy preferences match mine, and if I believe that their morals, ethics, and character are palatable (that's important to me as a voter). I don't have any problem disagreeing with a presidential administration over policy choices or personnel decisions- they won the election fair and square and they have the right to implement their policy and make their personnel appointments at their discretion, within the confines of the law, of course. What I have a problem with is having an executive branch that is flagrantly in contempt of the other two branches, and that would be true regardless of which part is in power. For example, if Joe Biden had allowed (insert any left wing billionaire name here) to create the left-wing version of DOGE, and if that left wing version of DOGE was behaving in the exact same manner as the real-life right wing version currently is, I'd have wanted Biden impeached post haste.

 

[Callatoroy]

If Biden had hired Mark Zuckerberg to 'audit' the executive branch's spending, I'd have called for his impeachment.

Well zuckerberg yea. He's a douche. I think the point is Biden would have never thought to audit anything. Looking for efficiency gains and to reduce wasteful spending hasn't been a big priority for politicians on either side until now. It's long overdue and beyond necessary. I can respect not liking the method taken, but to bitch when you find spending like what was found under USAID, that's not methodology, that's partisan bullshit and I can't respect that at all. And I'm using that as an example. Can't wait until the shit at the pentagon is highlighted.

 

[ColdBlueSteel]

There is no need for Trump to use Elon and his hacker brigade to supposedly root out corruption. Hire auditors. Hire accountants. Have them report to congressional committees. Or - here's an idea - use Republicans' complete control of all the branches of government to pass new laws controlling government efficiency and spending.

This is the great flaw in the system - bloat and increased spend are baked into the incentive structure for lawmakers. The problem is not corruption and fraud that auditors and accountants can reveal as much as it is legislator’s incentives to (legally) increase spending…hence the regular government shutdown theatrics.

DOGE is recklessly out of control and wildly overstepping, but in the process shining a bright light on how swollen and evolved beyond original scope some of these entities have become.

I’m no scholar but I believe Clinton/Gore were the last ones to make any headway reducing spend and were pulling some of the same threads as Elon is now. Since then it’s been wide open money spigots with the pandemic providing extra cover to really open the floodgates.

 

[Callatoroy]

I don't think that's true. Elon and Trump are flagrantly and blatantly committing what is likely to be unconstitutional abuse of executive branch power at the expense of the legislative branch, while also declaring their intention to defy the judicial branch, as well. That's the problem, as I see it- not that they are the brunt of the ire of the left simply because the left lost an election, but because they are wantonly abusing executive power in a way that is unconstitutional at best, and perhaps criminal at worst.

I like to think I'm a pretty reasonable voter. I'll vote for Republicans just as quickly as I'll vote for Democrats, and vice versa, if their policy preferences match mine, and if I believe that their morals, ethics, and character are palatable (that's important to me as a voter). I don't have any problem disagreeing with a presidential administration over policy choices or personnel decisions- they won the election fair and square and they have the right to implement their policy and make their personnel appointments at their discretion, within the confines of the law, of course. What I have a problem with is having an executive branch that is flagrantly in contempt of the other two branches, and that would be true regardless of which part is in power. For example, if Joe Biden had allowed (insert any left wing billionaire name here) to create the left-wing version of DOGE, and if that left wing version of DOGE was behaving in the exact same manner as the real-life right wing version currently is, I'd have wanted Biden impeached post haste.

Take cover Yosef. Here comes the I'm a REAL conservative shit

 

[CFordUNC]

Hahahahahaa oh my God, you really can't let it go, can you? Holy shit, this is actually amazing. I am both so flattered and also immensely weirded out by your obsession with this. Seriously, man, are you okay? Do you need anything? What I can I do to help?

Most importantly, who hurt you? And which part of my post, which wasn't directed at you or addressed to you in any way- triggered you so badly? Was it that I said I'd want Biden impeached for the same exact stuff for which I'm disagreeing with Trump? I thought you were the #HypocrisyPolice and would appreciate that #hypocrisyfreeconsistency!

Calla, if you have a crush on me, just say so, my man. We can work through it. Right now to the rest of the board it looks like you have CFord Derangement Syndrome.

 

[Bobfripp]

Well zuckerberg yea. He's a douche. I think the point is Biden would have never thought to audit anything. Looking for efficiency gains and to reduce wasteful spending hasn't been a big priority for politicians on either side until now. It's long overdue and beyond necessary. I can respect not liking the method taken, but to bitch when you find spending like what was found under USAID, that's not methodology, that's partisan bullshit and I can't respect that at all. And I'm using that as an example. Can't wait until the shit at the pentagon is highlighted.

Here in Massachusetts, the state legislative branch had been audited by a outside, 3rd party, but recently, by referendum, the state legislative branch will now be audited by the executive branch - which understandably brought up the argument that state executive branch auditing the state legislative branch violates the separation of powers described in the Massachusetts Constitution. I do think we need to have every branch of federal government audited, tested, scrutinized by (hopefully) disinterested 3rd parties.

Did You Know the Government Gets Audited, Too?

Tax season has many people diligently filing their returns to avoid being audited. While the federal government is not a tax-paying entity, it actually undergoes an audit of its financial statements every year. How do we know? Because we perform the audit!

www.gao.gov

However, the POTUS just dragging in someone, apparently anyone they so choose, to do the auditing of the executive branch, is just nuts. What if, instead of Elon Musk, Trump, by virtue of being given a 'mandate from the people', decided to bring in some random buddy of his to audit the executive branch? Say Rudy Guiliani? According to you and Trumpists, this is okay, because, well he's President and you're not.

 

[Callatoroy]

Hahahahahaa oh my God, you really can't let it go, can you? Holy shit, this is actually amazing. I am both so flattered and also immensely weirded out by your obsession with this. Seriously, man, are you okay? Do you need anything? What I can I do to help?

Most importantly, who hurt you? And which part of my post, which wasn't directed at you or addressed to you in any way- triggered you so badly? Was it that I said I'd want Biden impeached for the same exact stuff for which I'm disagreeing with Trump? I thought you were the #HypocrisyPolice and would appreciate that #hypocrisyfreeconsistency!

Calla, if you have a crush on me, just say so, my man. We can work through it. Right now to the rest of the board it looks like you have CFord Derangement Syndrome.

I just love it when you keep trying to convince everyone you are a conservative. It's just so entertaining seeing you type a War And Peace length paragraph trying to explain your "reasonableness" and how you will just as quickly vote for a republican as you will a dim. I really hope you continue.

 

[CFordUNC]

I just love it when you keep trying to convince everyone you are a conservative. It's just so entertaining seeing you type a War And Peace length paragraph trying to explain your "reasonableness" and how you will just as quickly vote for a republican as you will a dim. I really hope you continue.

You really need to get some help, man. I like talking shit to you but it's starting to feel like I'm punching down.

Let me take off my shit-talking glasses for a second and ask you a sincere, genuine question: what on earth does it matter to you and why are you so deeply obsessed with it? How does it affect you in any way, shape, or form? I genuinely want to understand why you have such an enormous hard-on for me in particular.

I'd reckon I've voted for far more Republicans in my 16 years of voting than you've voted for Democrats in your entire life. I don't care if you think that's true or if you don't. Doesn't matter to me. You have a very, very weird fixation on the fact that I am very outspoken in my hatred for Donald Trump and the current iteration of the Republican Party, yet I still consider myself to be overall conservative ideologically. Why is that so hard for you to wrap that tiny little mind around? Do you think KraftyHeel is lying when he says he's conservative but hates Trump? Do you think Lawtig is lying when he says he's conservative and hates Trump?

This will come as a huge shock to you, I know, but you don't have a monopoly on conservatism, nor do you have a monopoly on who gets to consider themselves conservative and who doesn't. You think that blindly voting down party line makes you a conservative; I think that it makes you a cockgobbling red sheep. I think that putting my principles and my country over party makes me conservative; you think it makes me some radical jihadist leftist extremist. Whatever, to each of us our own. The difference is, I don't run around this board chasing you begging for your attention and affirmation the way you beg for mine. If that's how you want to conduct yourself, I won't stop you, but I'm damn sure going to do my best to make sure it's as humiliating of an experience as possible for you.

 

[Callatoroy]

Here in Massachusetts, the state legislative branch had been audited by a outside, 3rd party, but recently, by referendum, the state legislative branch will now be audited by the executive branch - which understandably brought up the argument that state executive branch auditing the state legislative branch violates the separation of powers described in the Massachusetts Constitution. I do think we need to have every branch of federal government audited, tested, scrutinized by (hopefully) disinterested 3rd parties.

Did You Know the Government Gets Audited, Too?

Tax season has many people diligently filing their returns to avoid being audited. While the federal government is not a tax-paying entity, it actually undergoes an audit of its financial statements every year. How do we know? Because we perform the audit!

www.gao.gov

However, the POTUS just dragging in someone, apparently anyone they so choose, to do the auditing of the executive branch, is just nuts. What if, instead of Elon Musk, Trump, by virtue of being given a 'mandate from the people', decided to bring in some random buddy of his to audit the executive branch? Say Rudy Guiliani? According to you and Trumpists, this is okay, because, well he's President and you're not.

Fair point. But he didn't do that. And elon isn't doing a true audit as an accounting firm would do. He's more trying to uncover just the type of wasteful spending he has so far, and then make a public showing to gin up good pub for trump. He's kind of playing circus director and taking a business approach to g'ment. I like that because I think there are many advantages that g'ments could adopt from the business world. I also like that the public gets to see how the tax dollars are being spent and by which agency. And, its his right to hire whomever he wants for that type of role. The method elon is using isn't to my liking and I think it hurts trump because there is no need to take a sledge hammer approach and then rub that in the left's nose. Ultimately he will lose some public support when he could have accomplished the same thing and actually increased his public support.

 

[Callatoroy]

You really need to get some help, man. I like talking shit to you but it's starting to feel like I'm punching down.

Let me take off my shit-talking glasses for a second and ask you a sincere, genuine question: what on earth does it matter to you and why are you so deeply obsessed with it? How does it affect you in any way, shape, or form? I genuinely want to understand why you have such an enormous hard-on for me in particular.

I'd reckon I've voted for far more Republicans in my 16 years of voting than you've voted for Democrats in your entire life. I don't care if you think that's true or if you don't. Doesn't matter to me. You have a very, very weird fixation on the fact that I am very outspoken in my hatred for Donald Trump and the current iteration of the Republican Party, yet I still consider myself to be overall conservative ideologically. Why is that so hard for you to wrap that tiny little mind around? Do you think KraftyHeel is lying when he says he's conservative but hates Trump? Do you think Lawtig is lying when he says he's conservative and hates Trump?

This will come as a huge shock to you, I know, but you don't have a monopoly on conservatism, nor do you have a monopoly on who gets to consider themselves conservative and who doesn't. You think that blindly voting down party line makes you a conservative; I think that it makes you a cockgobbling red sheep. I think that putting my principles and my country over party makes me conservative; you think it makes me some radical jihadist leftist extremist. Whatever, to each of us our own. The difference is, I don't run around this board chasing you begging for your attention and affirmation the way you beg for mine. If that's how you want to conduct yourself, I won't stop you, but I'm damn sure going to do my best to make sure it's as humiliating of an experience as possible for you.

lol. This just isn't fair and humane anymore. Ok. You are a conservative. Please, no more novels and I'm letting you have the last word.

 

[CFordUNC]

lol. This just isn't fair and humane anymore. Ok. You are a conservative. Please, no more novels and I'm letting you have the last word.

Waving the white flag and bowing out Iike a whipped dog is the first smart damn thing you’ve ever done on this board. Let it be a lesson to you to not try to match shit talking wits with someone who relishes it way more than you.

Let me know where to send the final rent check and we’re even!

 

[Bobfripp]

Fair point. But he didn't do that.

Well, Trump did do that. and according to Trump

Executive branch >> Legislative branch = Judicial branch (apologies to Sen. Tuberville)

But according to the US Constitution and 250 years of executive, legislative and judicial opinion ... which apparently doesn't count for shit anymore ...

Executive branch = Legislative branch = Judicial branch

How Trump's rescission request draws on the centuries-old concept of impoundment

It's a concept that’s normally dry, esoteric and distanced from Americans' everyday lives, yet the heart of the matter is a key question of American democracy.

www.pbs.org

 

[Callatoroy]

Well, Trump did do that. and according to Trump

Executive branch >> Legislative branch = Judicial branch (apologies to Sen. Tuberville)

But according to the US Constitution and 250 years of executive, legislative and judicial opinion ... which apparently doesn't count for shit anymore ...

Executive branch = Legislative branch = Judicial branch

How Trump's rescission request draws on the centuries-old concept of impoundment

It's a concept that’s normally dry, esoteric and distanced from Americans' everyday lives, yet the heart of the matter is a key question of American democracy.

www.pbs.org

When it all shakes out though the fallout will be Judicial Branch > Executive Branch = Legislative Branch

 

[Shenanigans]

Well zuckerberg yea. He's a douche. I think the point is Biden would have never thought to audit anything. Looking for efficiency gains and to reduce wasteful spending hasn't been a big priority for politicians on either side until now. It's long overdue and beyond necessary. I can respect not liking the method taken, but to bitch when you find spending like what was found under USAID, that's not methodology, that's partisan bullshit and I can't respect that at all. And I'm using that as an example. Can't wait until the shit at the pentagon is highlighted.

Thinks Elon's not a douche...

It's hilarious how much you bootlick. Elon and Trump would not give a shit about you if you were growing on their ass.

Spoiler, they are not going to save any money for you. All money is going into their pockets, or the pockets of other very rich people. You are not close to rich.

 

[tallheel95]

Fair point. But he didn't do that. And elon isn't doing a true audit as an accounting firm would do. He's more trying to uncover just the type of wasteful spending he has so far, and then make a public showing to gin up good pub for trump. He's kind of playing circus director and taking a business approach to g'ment. I like that because I think there are many advantages that g'ments could adopt from the business world. I also like that the public gets to see how the tax dollars are being spent and by which agency. And, its his right to hire whomever he wants for that type of role. The method elon is using isn't to my liking and I think it hurts trump because there is no need to take a sledge hammer approach and then rub that in the left's nose. Ultimately he will lose some public support when he could have accomplished the same thing and actually increased his public support.

Calla, in all seriousness… I think what concerns me is that you are taking at face value what is being said about these actions and believing this is all about Trump/Musk cutting government spending to reduce waste and debt. I’m not sure that is what is actually happening here, and that is what is scaring me. If there were reasonable, principled people coming in to audit the system, reduce spending (including crazy military spending) AND raise taxes on the 1% to reduce debt… sign me up. The national debt IS a looming problem for this country. However, these are not actions of reasonable, principled people and my worry is that we are about to enter a dark era in American history.

 

[finesse]

The national debt is a problem AND it's a problem largely caused by either the Republicans directly or in cleaning up their messes. Reagan almost tripled it and stuck us with huge interest payments.

 

[MOUNTAINH33L]

Calla might be the biggest Musk stan on the ZZLP. Sad!