DOE launches investigation into Maines compliance with title IX

[UNCatTech]

Why is it so difficult to get the required documents?

Have you ever had to get a replacement birth certificate?

Do you have readily available copies of all your personal documents? Do you keep these on your person? Ever move? I assume you are probably a upper middle class white guy, really helps in these situations.

And again, let's keep focusing and using resources on issues that fall 4 standard deviations from the norm. Seems like an efficient use of money and resources.

 

[UNCatTech]

At some point you have to leave the emotion out or straw man arguments. This bill is designed to keep illegal immigrants from voting by providing proof of citizenship.
You would agree that non citizens participating in elections is a bad thing?

If non citizens are participating it's not at a rate that would influence the vote.

I'm much more concerned with a billionaire South African, who has the resources and money to actually influence our elections.

 

[Enigma94]

I'm not certain that people over 65 aren't voting twice. I think we should require all people over 65 to obtain a notarized pledge that states they will not vote twice and present that documentation in order to cast a ballot. It could become a problem in the future, so we better do something now.

 

[UNCatTech]

At some point you have to leave the emotion out or straw man arguments. This bill is designed to keep illegal immigrants from voting by providing proof of citizenship.
You would agree that non citizens participating in elections is a bad thing?

Also, it is a bad thing if in the effort to stop 1 non citizen from voting 5 citizens are impacted negatively.

 

[finesse]

If non citizens are participating it's not at a rate that would influence the vote.

I'm much more concerned with a billionaire South African, who has the resources and money to actually influence our elections.

Don't blame the immigrant. He just misunderstood what Buy America meant.

Still beats me why the Republicans thought they had a clear title.

 

[UNCatTech]

Doesn't answer my question. But what do you think we can do to ensure illegal immigrants won't vote in future elections?

We can't no matter what is implemented.

Therefore we have to protect our citizens right to vote. And work on legislation that would actually be impactful. Like actual immigration reform, instead of these attempts to disenfranchise citizens using this vailed lie that they are worried about undocumented people voting.

 

[TangledUpInBlue06]

Why is it so difficult to get the required documents?

Others have answered this - it's a poll tax. But I’ll add to it.

First, it’s already a felony for noncitizens to vote in federal elections. See 18 USC 611. And it’s a deportable offense. See CRS Report on Immigration Consequences of Unlawful Voting by Aliens.

Second, it’s just not a problem of any real magnitude. Here’s some state data summarized by AP:

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott, a Republican, said last month that more than 6,500 potential noncitizens have been removed from Texas voter rolls since 2021, including 1,930 with “a voter history” who have been referred for investigation by the attorney general’s office. Texas has almost 18 million registered voters. [That’s .036% and .011% of registered voters, respectively]​

​

Ohio Secretary of State Frank LaRose, a Republican, said in August that he referred for potential prosecution 138 apparent noncitizens found to have voted in a recent election and 459 more who registered but did not vote. Those figures were higher than reviews from previous years but a small fraction of the more than 8 million registered voters in Ohio. [That’s .002% and .006% of registered voters, respectively]​

​

Alabama Secretary of State Wes Allen, a Republican, recently announced that 3,251 people previously identified as noncitizens by the federal government are being switched to inactive status on the state’s voter registration rolls. They will be required to provide proof of citizenship and fill out a form to vote this fall. Alabama has more than 3 million registered voters. [That’s .108% of registered voters]​

​

In Georgia, Republican Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger found that 1,634 potential noncitizens tried to register to vote between 1997 and 2022, though election officials flagged them and none was registered. Georgia registered millions of other voters during that time.​

Finally, eligible voters would be disenfranchised.

But, of course, that is the real point of voter ID laws, isn’t it? Poor and minority voters that tend to vote for Democrats would no longer be able to vote. That’s the game. We all know it. But proponents of voter ID can’t just come out and say that because it’s so obviously evil. So we do this dance about the dangers of noncitizens voting.

If you want voter ID laws to be taken seriously, show us some initiatives to eliminate the disenfranchisement of eligible voters. Simplified forms and processes for getting ID. State assistance and fee waivers for obtaining a birth certificate or license, etc. Mobile officials that can come to you. Same-day ID issuance. What has been proposed to help keep eligible voters eligible to vote?

Shame on anyone that would tolerate disenfranchising their fellow countrymen.

 

[Silence Dogood]

Where's the flaw in how it's been handled so far? We know that this is going to effectively disenfranchise some legal voters for no obvious advantage to the electorate. Have you ever heard, "If it's not broke, don't fix it."?

Well a majority of Americans want proof of an id to vote. So its already broken.

 

[UNCatTech]

He was never convicted for rape

Raping some make one a rapist, not conviction. I believe all of the women who accused him.

We have evidence that he doesn't mind grabbing them by the pussy. He seems to see it as a right of his as a rich white male to use women in general.

 

[Silence Dogood]

Let's play real world, instead. Show me why we should make it hard on citizens who are here now and legitimate voters because of a possible future problem based on something happening under circumstances you can't prove will exist.

As has been said, a bad solution desperately looking for a problem.

Because you are purposely ignoring an issue that can become a problem because your party would benefit. Two, you're exaggerating how hard it is to provide documentation. Providing documentation is a part of life.

 

[lawtig02]

Only US citizens are voting now.

How about a universal identity card distributed by the federal government to every US citizen, with a backup database accessible to election workers in case a card is lost or not brought to the polls? And a $100,000 penalty paid by the relevant municipality to any citizen who proves in court the municipality improperly prevented the citizen from voting. We could also use the id cards and the database for other purposes, such as tracking tax cheats. Would that work as a compromise?

 

[finesse]

Well a majority of Americans want proof of an id to vote. So its already broken.

No, what Americans think isn't proof of anything. It's an opinion from an often seriously misinformed group. The numbers and statistics about what actually does happen is proof. You've been given those and continue to ignore them.

 

[UNCatTech]

Others have answered this - it's a poll tax. But I’ll add to it.

First, it’s already a felony for noncitizens to vote in federal elections. See 18 USC 611. And it’s a deportable offense. See CRS Report on Immigration Consequences of Unlawful Voting by Aliens.

Second, it’s just not a problem of any real magnitude. Here’s some state data summarized by AP:

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott, a Republican, said last month that more than 6,500 potential noncitizens have been removed from Texas voter rolls since 2021, including 1,930 with “a voter history” who have been referred for investigation by the attorney general’s office. Texas has almost 18 million registered voters. [That’s .036% and .011% of registered voters, respectively]​

​

Ohio Secretary of State Frank LaRose, a Republican, said in August that he referred for potential prosecution 138 apparent noncitizens found to have voted in a recent election and 459 more who registered but did not vote. Those figures were higher than reviews from previous years but a small fraction of the more than 8 million registered voters in Ohio. [That’s .002% and .006% of registered voters, respectively]​

​

Alabama Secretary of State Wes Allen, a Republican, recently announced that 3,251 people previously identified as noncitizens by the federal government are being switched to inactive status on the state’s voter registration rolls. They will be required to provide proof of citizenship and fill out a form to vote this fall. Alabama has more than 3 million registered voters. [That’s .108% of registered voters]​

​

In Georgia, Republican Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger found that 1,634 potential noncitizens tried to register to vote between 1997 and 2022, though election officials flagged them and none was registered. Georgia registered millions of other voters during that time.​

Finally, eligible voters would be disenfranchised.

But, of course, that is the real point of voter ID laws, isn’t it? Poor and minority voters that tend to vote for Democrats would no longer be able to vote. That’s the game. We all know it. But proponents of voter ID can’t just come out and say that because it’s so obviously evil. So we do this dance about the dangers of noncitizens voting.

If you want voter ID laws to be taken seriously, show us some initiatives to eliminate the disenfranchisement of eligible voters. Simplified forms and processes for getting ID. State assistance and fee waivers for obtaining a birth certificate or license, etc. Mobile officials that can come to you. Same-day ID issuance. What has been proposed to help keep eligible voters eligible to vote?

Shame on anyone that would tolerate disenfranchising their fellow countrymen.

More proposed Republican laws when laws are already on the books. Hmmmm.

 

[finesse]

Because you are purposely ignoring an issue that can become a problem because your party would benefit. Two, you're exaggerating how hard it is to provide documentation. Providing documentation is a part of life.

Do you realize that is totally nonresponsive to anything I said? You really do have serious comprehension problems.

 

[Silence Dogood]

No, what Americans think isn't proof of anything. It's an opinion from an often seriously misinformed group. The numbers and statistics about what actually does happen is proof. You've been given those and continue to ignore them.

Polls show the majority want a form of identification

 

[UNCatTech]

Well a majority of Americans want proof of an id to vote. So its already broken.

The majority also wanted Row to stay in place.

So fuck your claim to majority.

The only reason the majority think it's a problem is because one party keeps lying to them about the scale of the issue.

 

[finesse]

Polls show the majority want a form of identification

Which is proof of nothing but the effectiveness of Republican lies.

 

[Enigma94]

Polls show the majority want a form of identification

Do you decide what you agree with based on how it polls?

 

[dukeman92]

Because you are purposely ignoring an issue that can become a problem because your party would benefit. Two, you're exaggerating how hard it is to provide documentation. Providing documentation is a part of life.

Still waiting on that DOGE documentation... but it hasn't stopped you from believing everything Trump and Musk shove down your throat.

 

[UNCatTech]

How about a universal identity card distributed by the federal government to every US citizen, with a backup database accessible to election workers in case a card is lost or not brought to the polls? And a $100,000 penalty paid by the relevant municipality to any citizen who proves in court the municipality improperly prevented the citizen from voting. We could also use the id cards and the database for other purposes, such as tracking tax cheats. Would that work as a compromise?

Silent dog probably doesn't like this as it wouldn't achieve the underlying goal.