Does Anyone Like Kamala?

hedge said:
Whenever a thread like this gets started about Kamala, I always wonder how long before HY chimes in about how bad Biden is. Didn't take long this time. I've said it before, to the extent that "Trump derangement syndrome" is even a thing, at least there's some merit in it. But how pitiful do you have to be to still have Biden derangement syndrome at this point?
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Trump derangement syndrome is being miss characterized, those who are truly deranged are those who can justify voting for a serial liar, narcissist, who's bankrupted several businesses, is out of touch with the middle class, supports the project 2025 move toward theocracy and Christian Nationalists, and wants to raise taxes on the poorest while decreasing taxes on the richest (just to mention a few of the negatives). That is derangement. Derangement is not a focus on removing this threat(trump) to democracy, as the right likes to characterize it.

It's weird because in the past Americans would come together and circle the wagons if there was a perceived threat to our democracy, our way of life, or our country. Now we have people at the RNC openly saying that the era of democracy is over and openly supporting an authoritarian facist regime. And so many of the people who would have never accepted this in the past are fully accepting. It like they have been brainwashed into a cult.
 
Paine said:
My mom said she won’t vote for Kamala or Trump. I asked her what she had against Kamala and she said she was “arrogant.” I was never able to get an answer as to what made her arrogant though.
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I hate reading this shit. My sister is the same way. She doesn't like Kamala but can't give any specific reasons why. I think deep down they want to support Trump without the blowback.
 
dukeman92 said:
I hate reading this shit. My sister is the same way. She doesn't like Kamala but can't give any specific reasons why. I think deep down they want to support Trump without the blowback.
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For my mom, I honestly feel like it is internalized misogyny. I mean, I’m not the biggest Kamala Harris fan, but I would never describe her as arrogant. I guess if you think women are supposed to be calm and demure, then maybe her dominance of Trump in the debate would make her look arrogant? I really don’t know
 
CFordUNC said:
Why do y’all lie about this stuff? It’s not like any of it is really subjective. Why are y’all so desperate to reside in some alternative timeline or universe where everything is so….bad….instead of the current real one where everything is so…good…by pretty much every objective standard. Just curious to know what y’all are thinking and your reasoning, that’s all. It’s completely totally fine that y’all don’t like Biden or Harris or even Democrats or whatever. I just don’t understand making up a completely false alternate reality to try to justify it to yourselves.
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I'm not a conservative, but I have an answer (or at least a hypothesis). Although I think there are 2 distinct answers to your question that have to be explored.

First, I think you have to realize that the last 32 years have been a large-scale repudiation of conservatism at the national level (which has tricked down to the state and even local levels). At the end of Biden's term, Dems will have held the WH for 20 of the last 32 years. And the 2 Republican presidents? Dubya (bottom 10 president, historically) and Trump (worst. president. ever.). In those 32 years, Pubs have advanced almost nothing novel or even largely coherent in terms of a vision for the US. Dubya tried - "compassionate conservatism" - and then pooped all over it in practice by not doing very much to actually put it into place. In the last 32 years, Republicans have lost on nearly every major issues except one (abortion, they overturned Rvw...and it's been a cluster). So, Republicans have to face that there are only two real options here...either (A) Dems largely winning the political discussion has been good for the country and conservatism is wrong or (B) Dems have made things incredibly worse by being largely in control of the country for the last 32 years.

Here's where the second answer to your question comes in.

The rise of right-wing media has made it where conservatives don't have to hear or engage with facts that don't fit their narrative. For many conservatives, every bit of "news" they hear tells them that things are terrible in the US. That the economy is terrible, that urban areas are hellholes, that immigrants are destroying America, that white people are the most discriminated race in the country and it's getting worse, etc. There is a whole media set up that exists to convince conservatives that the repercussions of Democratic leadership in our country is that everything is bad. That Democratic goals and initiatives have been a failure. And that only conservatism can fix all of the problems that Dems have created. And these media channels supply a constant supply of "facts" to butress their claims. So when all of your media consumption is supplying you with "facts" that fit the narrative you want to believe, it is difficult to break away from those "facts".

And then the two come together.

So when folks outside the right-wing media ecosystem present actual data that doesn't support right-wing viewpoints, you're really not asking conservatives to merely accept certain statistics...you're asking them to admit that conservatism in the US has failed. Because if they are forced to admit that the statistics presented by governmental or other expert-led agencies are correct, then they are also forced to admit that liberal ideas have worked fairly well.

If you recognize that many urban areas in the US are doing fairly well (and doing better than rural areas); then you have also have to recognize the Dems leading those areas have had success.

If you recognize that our economic indicators, even where merely decent, often lead the world; then you have to recognize that Dems have had success in leading our economic recovery after COVID.

If you recognize that providing minority rights have not destroyed the country; then you have to admit that providing those rights to minority groups were, at the least, a decently good idea.

So, in short, it takes the creation of an alternative reality where the world is falling apart due to Democratic leadership and ideas in order for Pubs not to have to admit that Dem leadership has been successful and that conservatism, as currently constructioned in the US, has lost the political discussion and is no longer valid as an opposing political belief system.
 
SnoopRob said:
I'm not a conservative, but I have an answer (or at least a hypothesis). Although I think there are 2 distinct answers to your question that have to be explored.

First, I think you have to realize that the last 32 years have been a large-scale repudiation of conservatism at the national level (which has tricked down to the state and even local levels). At the end of Biden's term, Dems will have held the WH for 20 of the last 32 years. And the 2 Republican presidents? Dubya (bottom 10 president, historically) and Trump (worst. president. ever.). In those 32 years, Pubs have advanced almost nothing novel or even largely coherent in terms of a vision for the US. Dubya tried - "compassionate conservatism" - and then pooped all over it in practice by not doing very much to actually put it into place. In the last 32 years, Republicans have lost on nearly every major issues except one (abortion, they overturned Rvw...and it's been a cluster). So, Republicans have to face that there are only two real options here...either (A) Dems largely winning the political discussion has been good for the country and conservatism is wrong or (B) Dems have made things incredibly worse by being largely in control of the country for the last 32 years.

Here's where the second answer to your question comes in.

The rise of right-wing media has made it where conservatives don't have to hear or engage with facts that don't fit their narrative. For many conservatives, every bit of "news" they hear tells them that things are terrible in the US. That the economy is terrible, that urban areas are hellholes, that immigrants are destroying America, that white people are the most discriminated race in the country and it's getting worse, etc. There is a whole media set up that exists to convince conservatives that the repercussions of Democratic leadership in our country is that everything is bad. That Democratic goals and initiatives have been a failure. And that only conservatism can fix all of the problems that Dems have created. And these media channels supply a constant supply of "facts" to butress their claims. So when all of your media consumption is supplying you with "facts" that fit the narrative you want to believe, it is difficult to break away from those "facts".

And then the two come together.

So when folks outside the right-wing media ecosystem present actual data that doesn't support right-wing viewpoints, you're really not asking conservatives to merely accept certain statistics...you're asking them to admit that conservatism in the US has failed. Because if they are forced to admit that the statistics presented by governmental or other expert-led agencies are correct, then they are also forced to admit that liberal ideas have worked fairly well.

If you recognize that many urban areas in the US are doing fairly well (and doing better than rural areas); then you have also have to recognize the Dems leading those areas have had success.

If you recognize that our economic indicators, even where merely decent, often lead the world; then you have to recognize that Dems have had success in leading our economic recovery after COVID.

If you recognize that providing minority rights have not destroyed the country; then you have to admit that providing those rights to minority groups were, at the least, a decently good idea.

So, in short, it takes the creation of an alternative reality where the world is falling apart due to Democratic leadership and ideas in order for Pubs not to have to admit that Dem leadership has been successful and that conservatism, as currently constructioned in the US, has lost the political discussion and is no longer valid as an opposing political belief system.
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Fucking spectacular. Just spectacular. Thanks a ton for this repsonse.
 
Bigs23 said:
It’s because she’s black.
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I employee a lot of Indian people. They were really scared when trump 1.0 was elected. They are thrilled with Kamala. I don't know all the racial rules this board uses but they talk about her mom a lot and I'm happy they're not scared about what their future would look like with kamala as president.
 
SnoopRob said:
I'm not a conservative, but I have an answer (or at least a hypothesis). Although I think there are 2 distinct answers to your question that have to be explored.

First, I think you have to realize that the last 32 years have been a large-scale repudiation of conservatism at the national level (which has tricked down to the state and even local levels). At the end of Biden's term, Dems will have held the WH for 20 of the last 32 years. And the 2 Republican presidents? Dubya (bottom 10 president, historically) and Trump (worst. president. ever.). In those 32 years, Pubs have advanced almost nothing novel or even largely coherent in terms of a vision for the US. Dubya tried - "compassionate conservatism" - and then pooped all over it in practice by not doing very much to actually put it into place. In the last 32 years, Republicans have lost on nearly every major issues except one (abortion, they overturned Rvw...and it's been a cluster). So, Republicans have to face that there are only two real options here...either (A) Dems largely winning the political discussion has been good for the country and conservatism is wrong or (B) Dems have made things incredibly worse by being largely in control of the country for the last 32 years.

Here's where the second answer to your question comes in.

The rise of right-wing media has made it where conservatives don't have to hear or engage with facts that don't fit their narrative. For many conservatives, every bit of "news" they hear tells them that things are terrible in the US. That the economy is terrible, that urban areas are hellholes, that immigrants are destroying America, that white people are the most discriminated race in the country and it's getting worse, etc. There is a whole media set up that exists to convince conservatives that the repercussions of Democratic leadership in our country is that everything is bad. That Democratic goals and initiatives have been a failure. And that only conservatism can fix all of the problems that Dems have created. And these media channels supply a constant supply of "facts" to butress their claims. So when all of your media consumption is supplying you with "facts" that fit the narrative you want to believe, it is difficult to break away from those "facts".

And then the two come together.

So when folks outside the right-wing media ecosystem present actual data that doesn't support right-wing viewpoints, you're really not asking conservatives to merely accept certain statistics...you're asking them to admit that conservatism in the US has failed. Because if they are forced to admit that the statistics presented by governmental or other expert-led agencies are correct, then they are also forced to admit that liberal ideas have worked fairly well.

If you recognize that many urban areas in the US are doing fairly well (and doing better than rural areas); then you have also have to recognize the Dems leading those areas have had success.

If you recognize that our economic indicators, even where merely decent, often lead the world; then you have to recognize that Dems have had success in leading our economic recovery after COVID.

If you recognize that providing minority rights have not destroyed the country; then you have to admit that providing those rights to minority groups were, at the least, a decently good idea.

So, in short, it takes the creation of an alternative reality where the world is falling apart due to Democratic leadership and ideas in order for Pubs not to have to admit that Dem leadership has been successful and that conservatism, as currently constructioned in the US, has lost the political discussion and is no longer valid as an opposing political belief system.
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Great post.

One of the Facebook groups I belong to is Leaving California, because I do plan to retire in a different state one of these days. And while I admit that California may not be as nice in some areas -- especially for people with a working class income -- the amount of alternative reality these people spew on a daily basis is insane. They actually live in California (or did) and can personally observe the truth. Instead, they are fed an internet diet of BS every day about the hell-hole they are living in -- to the point they have decided the internet is the true reality and their day-to-day observations are not to be trusted. Instead, they obsess over every homeless encampment they can find and have convinced themselves they are living in the equivalent of war-torn Gaza.

These people then move out of California and talk about how great the "freedom" is in Tennessee because the CVS aisles are not locked down. Of course, they talk about how sad they are about leaving all of their loved ones and friends, but it is a small price to pay for their new-found freedom in a place the internet told them would be awesome.
 
Calheel said:
Great post.

One of the Facebook groups I belong to is Leaving California, because I do plan to retire in a different state one of these days. And while I admit that California may not be as nice in some areas -- especially for people with a working class income -- the amount of alternative reality these people spew on a daily basis is insane. They actually live in California (or did) and can personally observe the truth. Instead, they are fed an internet diet of BS every day about the hell-hole they are living in -- to the point they have decided the internet is the true reality and their day-to-day observations are not to be trusted. Instead, they obsess over every homeless encampment they can find and have convinced themselves they are living in the equivalent of war-torn Gaza.

These people then move out of California and talk about how great the "freedom" is in Tennessee because the CVS aisles are not locked down. Of course, they talk about how sad they are about leaving all of their loved ones and friends, but it is a small price to pay for their new-found freedom in a place the internet told them would be awesome.
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It amazes me the number of people who have never visited NYC in their lives... who try to convince me that NYC is an urban hellscape where you take your life into your hands every day. They are convinced my actual real life experiences are false.
 
NYCBlueBlood said:
It amazes me the number of people who have never visited NYC in their lives... who try to convince me that NYC is an urban hellscape where you take your life into your hands every day. They are convinced my actual real life experiences are false.
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That is crazy. But it is even crazier when they falsely believe their own lived experience is a hellhole. Like how brainwashed do you have to be to believe what you read on the internet is true and what you physically observe and experience on a day to day basis is false.

It is as if they are wearing MAGA glasses that colors everything they see.
 
Calheel said:
That is crazy. But it is even crazier when they falsely believe their own lived experience is a hellhole. Like how brainwashed do you have to be to believe what you read on the internet is true and what you physically observe and experience on a day to day basis is false.

It is as if they are wearing MAGA glasses that colors everything they see.
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Yeah, I see that with some of my neighbors. There's an Albanian family who lives next door to me. I swear every other day I see them up on ladders trying to install another video camera outside their house. I tease the husband about it, but he swears that things are constantly getting stolen from his property. He said he has video if I want to see it. I ask what the cops say about it. He just waves me off, and tells me they are worthless. I tell him that half the time I leave my house, I leave my door unlocked so I don't have to bother with keys... he looks at me like I'm playing Russian Roulette.
 
CFordUNC said:
I will answer the question put forth by the OP because I think it’s a fair one. But first I want to ask the Republicans/Trump voters on this thread/board an entirely serious, genuinely sincere question about which I’m legitimately curious in understanding.

Republicans: why are y’all so hellbent on inventing a world that none of us actually live in right now?

Y’all are hellbent on telling us that the economy sucks. It doesn’t. It’s by far the strongest in the world by every single objective measure and every single metric.

Y’all are hellbent on telling us that we are living in a crippling inflationary environment. We aren’t. The rate of inflation is exactly where we want it to be, and the way that you can know that is that the Fed just cut interest rates and will do so again at least once, if not twice, in the near future.

Y’all are hellbent on telling us that crime is out of control. It isn’t. By virtually every metric, violent crime is at a decades-low.

Y’all are hellbent on telling us that the “border is wide open.” It isn’t. Border crossings are at a four-year low- when Donald Trump was in office- and dropping still.

Y’all are hellbent on telling us that the middle class is getting destroyed economically. It isn’t. Wages have been increasing, unemployment is at record lows, and consumer spending, spending on luxury items, spending on vacations, etc. is currently at an all-time high among middle income households.

Y’all are hellbent on telling us that the world is “less safe” now than it was when Donald Trump was in office. It isn’t. Our geopolitical alliances are stronger than they’ve been in decades and our geopolitical enemies- especially our primary one- has been majorly weakened militarily and economically.

Why do y’all lie about this stuff? It’s not like any of it is really subjective. Why are y’all so desperate to reside in some alternative timeline or universe where everything is so….bad….instead of the current real one where everything is so…good…by pretty much every objective standard. Just curious to know what y’all are thinking and your reasoning, that’s all. It’s completely totally fine that y’all don’t like Biden or Harris or even Democrats or whatever. I just don’t understand making up a completely false alternate reality to try to justify it to yourselves.

To answer the OP’s question, though, I do like Kamala Harris. I did not like her in 2019/2020. I did not know enough about her to like her during her VP tenure for most of the last 4 years. I didnt even like her when it became painfully obvious that Biden was going to have to be replaced on the right. But over the last 2 months I’ve grown to like her because I’ve been impressed at what an incredibly organized, efficient, and effective campaign she has run. I’m sure I don’t agree with her on every policy principle, but I agree with her on the biggest ones that count the most to me, and I think she has articulated them well. But much, much more so than any policy agreement is that I actually think she is a person of character, which I care very much about in elected officials. The Democratic Party is currently putting forth national candidates that much more align with both my policy preferences and my preferences for character; the Republican Party is not. I hope they will be able to do so again one day, because I would like to be able to vote for Republicans again one day.

Something on which I have prided myself since 2016, when I did cast of vote for Trump the first time, is my refusal to just tribally double down, and then triple down, on voting for Donald Trump in 2020 and now 2024. Trump showed himself to be manifestly unfit to be president while he was actually president, which was what solidified my decision to not vote for him a second time in 2020, and then after he was president he displayed that manifest unfitness one thousand fold. I actually feel really bad for the people who are casting a vote for Trump in 2024 for no other reason than he is the Republican nominee for president- there are a couple of them on this board, as an example. It is beyond certain that those folks do not actually believe that he belongs in the presidency again, and I would say that it is almost certain that they do not believe him to be a person of character or someone qualified to serve as commander-in-chief. I’ll even go a step further and say that I am almost certain that they do not actually believe that Kamala Harris’s policy proposals are bad or harmful- they just have to pretend to do so in order to try to mask their shame of voting for Trump for no other reason other than tribal party affiliation partisanship. At least the true MAGA’s that are voting for Trump are either genuinely ignorant enough, or sincerely nasty enough, to relish the opportunity to vote for Trump because they like who he is and they like what he stands for. The folks that have my pity are the ones who are going to vote for him despite disliking him and despite thinking that he is fit to be president – they are only voting for him because they haven’t been able to grow up past political party tribalism.
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Fear sells and fear (and possibly election fraud)is the only chance they have to offer.

It is very sad that so many just lap it up without question.
 
Calheel said:
That is crazy. But it is even crazier when they falsely believe their own lived experience is a hellhole. Like how brainwashed do you have to be to believe what you read on the internet is true and what you physically observe and experience on a day to day basis is false.

It is as if they are wearing MAGA glasses that colors everything they see.
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A couple of years ago I was at a work conference where a coworker was describing an issue he had at airport security because he had forgotten he was carrying his spare clip of ammunition.

When I asked him why he needed a spare he started to tell me how "they come at you in waves" and a single clip isn't going to be enough, and you need to carry two. He was from TX and the "they" were illegal immigrants or MS13 or some other damn fool thing.

Dude had a fantasy film running in his head 24/7 where he was a hero gunning his way through waves of slightly browner people than he was, who were intent on rape, slaughter, and mayhem.

What a ******* mental hellscape.
 
Paine said:
For my mom, I honestly feel like it is internalized misogyny. I mean, I’m not the biggest Kamala Harris fan, but I would never describe her as arrogant. I guess if you think women are supposed to be calm and demure, then maybe her dominance of Trump in the debate would make her look arrogant? I really don’t know
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That's definitely part of it. You can be a woman and be a misogynist.
 
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