DOGE Catch-All | DOGE ledger “riddled with errors”

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“Subcommittee Chairwoman Greene: “Mr. Talcove, do private sector companies have a lower rate of improper payments than the federal government?

Mr. Talcove: “Yes. The fraud rate, that the criminals are taking advantage of the public sector is around 20%. In the private sector, it’s around 3%. And it’s really because the tools that are used in the private sector, aren’t used in the public sector. Front end identity verification, self-certification, and then finally, making sure that individuals are who they say they are. If we start using these tools, you will see the fraud rate go down dramatically because for the most part, this fraud isn’t taking place by individuals. It’s individuals whose identities have been stolen on the dark web.”

Subcommittee Chairwoman Greene: “We would say the private companies that pretty much have to exist on a 20% profit rate. They can’t continue to be successful if they were to allow their customers data to be something like that and used by criminals. However, the federal government, who can continue printing checks and continue an operation, never fixes its problems because it can’t be forced to go out of business. Would you agree with that, Yes or no?

Mr. Talcove: “Yes.”
 
“Subcommittee Chairwoman Greene: “Mr. Talcove, do private sector companies have a lower rate of improper payments than the federal government?

Mr. Talcove: “Yes. The fraud rate, that the criminals are taking advantage of the public sector is around 20%. In the private sector, it’s around 3%. And it’s really because the tools that are used in the private sector, aren’t used in the public sector. Front end identity verification, self-certification, and then finally, making sure that individuals are who they say they are. If we start using these tools, you will see the fraud rate go down dramatically because for the most part, this fraud isn’t taking place by individuals. It’s individuals whose identities have been stolen on the dark web.”

Subcommittee Chairwoman Greene: “We would say the private companies that pretty much have to exist on a 20% profit rate. They can’t continue to be successful if they were to allow their customers data to be something like that and used by criminals. However, the federal government, who can continue printing checks and continue an operation, never fixes its problems because it can’t be forced to go out of business. Would you agree with that, Yes or no?

Mr. Talcove: “Yes.”
Yes. Mr. Talcove said the fraud rate was 20%. Just happens to be a nice round number like that. Implausibly high, but sure, why would he lie? Oh, his business is hoping to sell anti-fraud software to the government? Oh, he's been out there talking about the government's outdated systems and how they need to buy his products? Oh, what motivation could he possibly have to make shit up?

You people are so credulous. The idea that one out of every five federal payments is fraudulent -- I mean, what the fuck is wrong with you?
 
As I happened, I previously read Talcove’s prior written submission to another hearing —-


— and read about, but didn’t see his testimony in the MTG subcommittee. A lot of that prior written stuff and what he said in the MTG hearing has focused on COVID programs, which were subject to immense levels of fraud because they was designed to push out the funds first and fast in the face of the pandemic and try to clawback from fraudsters later. That was a design feature of the programs (push out money now and chase fraud later), like PPP (which was a project of Marco Rubio, implemented under Trump and continued for another round under Biden).

PPP and some other programs (particularly the employee retention tax credit) were rife with abuse and that was baked into the design.

Anyway, from reading about his testimony tonight, it seems he conflated intentional waiver of typical anti-fraud documentation requirements from the COVID-era programs with ordinary government programs (which always have a fraud problem separately but don’t have most of the security deficiencies baked into the COVID relief).

TAlcove seems to extrapolate COVID issues as though they directly apply to ordinary welfare programs even though the COVId era programs have notably less stringent requirements. No idea where he got the 20% number or $1 Trillion figure generally.
 
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Anyway, a lot of conservative groups tend to conflate error rates and fraud, and extrapolate sometimes wild estimates of welfare fraud on that basis. But there is fraud on welfare programs at differing rates for different programs.

For example:

“…
For every 10,000 households participating in the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), about 14 contained a recipient who was investigated and determined to have committed fraud (via a 2018 report by the Congressional Research Service). Within SNAP, for every $10,000 paid in benefits, about $11 is determined by state agencies to have been overpaid due to recipient fraud.

To put this into perspective, the IRS estimates that for every $6 owed in federal taxes, $1 is not paid because of tax evasion or fraud. …”


Dated but still useful as it appears to track the same cross-arguments and stats about welfare fraud as we see now:


“…According to the Association of Certified Fraud Examiners (ACFE), the typical business loses 5 percent of its revenue to fraud each year. Even when detected, 40 to 50 percent of victimized companies don’t recover their losses. The industries most likely to be victims of fraud are the banking and financial sector; government and public administration; and manufacturing.

… It’s not easy to get agreement on actual fraud levels in government programs. Unsurprisingly, liberals say they’re low, while conservatives insist they’re astronomically high.

In truth, it varies from program to program. One government report says fraud accounts for less than 2 percent of unemployment insurance payments. It’s seemingly impossible to find statistics on “welfare” (i.e., TANF) fraud, but the best guess is that it’s about the same.

A bevy of inspector general reports found “improper payment” levels of 20 to 40 percent in state TANF programs -- but when you look at the reports, the payments appear all to be due to bureaucratic incompetence (categorized by the inspector general as either “eligibility and payment calculation errors” or “documentation errors”), rather than intentional fraud by beneficiaries.

A similar story emerges with everyone’s favorite punching bag, food stamps (or, as they’re known today, SNAP). Earlier this year, Senator John Thune of South Dakota and Rep. Marlin Stutzman of Indiana, both Republicans, introduced legislation to save $30 billion over 10 years from SNAP, purportedly by “eliminating loopholes, waste, fraud, and abuse.”

Once you dig into their fact sheet, however, none of the savings actually come from fraud, but rather from cutting funding and tightening benefits. That’s probably because fraud levels in SNAP appear to be as low as with the other “pure welfare” programs we just touched on: “Payment error” rates -- money sent in incorrect amounts and/or to the wrong people -- have declined from near 10 percent a decade ago to 3 to 4 percent today, most of it due, again, to government error, not active fraud.

The majority of food-stamp fraud appears to be generated by supermarkets “trafficking” in the food stamps. Beneficiaries intentionally ripping off the taxpayers account for perhaps 1 percent of payments.

… No one knows for sure how much Medicaid and Medicare fraud there is. According to the FBI, the cost for Medicare fraud is anywhere from 3 to 10 percent, while Attorney General Eric Holder estimates $60 to $90 billion in fraud in Medicare and almost the same amount in Medicaid fraud -- approaching 20 percent. While nowhere near as large as Medicare and Medicaid, the Supplemental Security Income (SSI) and Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI) programs are each estimated to be paying about 10 percent of their expenditures in fraudulent claims.

To round out the picture, you can toss in defense contractor fraud -- perhaps as much as another $100 billion per year, roughly in the same range as Medicare and Medicaid combined. All told, fraud in federal programs may come to $300 billion a year or about 10 percent of the budget (as with financial services). …”
 
Anyway, a lot of conservative groups tend to conflate error rates and fraud, and extrapolate sometimes wild estimates of welfare fraud on that basis. But there is fraud on welfare programs at differing rates for different programs.

For example:

“…
For every 10,000 households participating in the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), about 14 contained a recipient who was investigated and determined to have committed fraud (via a 2018 report by the Congressional Research Service). Within SNAP, for every $10,000 paid in benefits, about $11 is determined by state agencies to have been overpaid due to recipient fraud.

To put this into perspective, the IRS estimates that for every $6 owed in federal taxes, $1 is not paid because of tax evasion or fraud. …”


Dated but still useful as it appears to track the same cross-arguments and stats about welfare fraud as we see now:


“…According to the Association of Certified Fraud Examiners (ACFE), the typical business loses 5 percent of its revenue to fraud each year. Even when detected, 40 to 50 percent of victimized companies don’t recover their losses. The industries most likely to be victims of fraud are the banking and financial sector; government and public administration; and manufacturing.

… It’s not easy to get agreement on actual fraud levels in government programs. Unsurprisingly, liberals say they’re low, while conservatives insist they’re astronomically high.

In truth, it varies from program to program. One government report says fraud accounts for less than 2 percent of unemployment insurance payments. It’s seemingly impossible to find statistics on “welfare” (i.e., TANF) fraud, but the best guess is that it’s about the same.

A bevy of inspector general reports found “improper payment” levels of 20 to 40 percent in state TANF programs -- but when you look at the reports, the payments appear all to be due to bureaucratic incompetence (categorized by the inspector general as either “eligibility and payment calculation errors” or “documentation errors”), rather than intentional fraud by beneficiaries.

A similar story emerges with everyone’s favorite punching bag, food stamps (or, as they’re known today, SNAP). Earlier this year, Senator John Thune of South Dakota and Rep. Marlin Stutzman of Indiana, both Republicans, introduced legislation to save $30 billion over 10 years from SNAP, purportedly by “eliminating loopholes, waste, fraud, and abuse.”

Once you dig into their fact sheet, however, none of the savings actually come from fraud, but rather from cutting funding and tightening benefits. That’s probably because fraud levels in SNAP appear to be as low as with the other “pure welfare” programs we just touched on: “Payment error” rates -- money sent in incorrect amounts and/or to the wrong people -- have declined from near 10 percent a decade ago to 3 to 4 percent today, most of it due, again, to government error, not active fraud.

The majority of food-stamp fraud appears to be generated by supermarkets “trafficking” in the food stamps. Beneficiaries intentionally ripping off the taxpayers account for perhaps 1 percent of payments.

… No one knows for sure how much Medicaid and Medicare fraud there is. According to the FBI, the cost for Medicare fraud is anywhere from 3 to 10 percent, while Attorney General Eric Holder estimates $60 to $90 billion in fraud in Medicare and almost the same amount in Medicaid fraud -- approaching 20 percent. While nowhere near as large as Medicare and Medicaid, the Supplemental Security Income (SSI) and Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI) programs are each estimated to be paying about 10 percent of their expenditures in fraudulent claims.

To round out the picture, you can toss in defense contractor fraud -- perhaps as much as another $100 billion per year, roughly in the same range as Medicare and Medicaid combined. All told, fraud in federal programs may come to $300 billion a year or about 10 percent of the budget (as with financial services). …”
A related article, from NBC News (dated March 28, 2022).

 
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3 men claiming to be from DOGE show up at San Francisco City Hall, demand records​



[Sounds like DOGE wannabes/dopey would-be criminals or trolls — SF officials refused their demands and eventually they left]
 

Top US Election Security Watchdog Forced to Stop Election Security Work​

The US Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency has frozen efforts to aid states in securing elections, according to an internal memo viewed by WIRED.


“… In a memo sent Friday to all CISA employees and obtained by WIRED, CISA’s acting director, Bridget Bean, said she was ordering “a review and assessment” of every position at the agency related to election security and countering mis- and disinformation, “as well as every election security and [mis-, dis-, and malinformation] product, activity, service, and program that has been carried out” since the federal government designated election systems as critical infrastructure in 2017.

“CISA will pause all elections security activities until the completion of this review,” Bean added. The agency is also cutting off funding for these activities at the Elections Infrastructure Information Sharing & Analysis Center, a group funded by the Department of Homeland Security that has served as a coordinating body for the elections community. …”
 
Its about time we expose the bureaucracy for waste and abuse. Its been a long time coming. This is definitely a bi partisan issue. Who could possibly be against reviewing govt records potentially exposing their inefficiency?
 
Great, so now more classified info can be published and PII for student loan borrowers and other US citizens can be scraped for future use. All this so we can enter a bitcoin-fueled era of anarcho-capitalism where Peter Thiel, Elon Musk and other billionaires don't pay taxes and we have a medieval lord serf system again. No wonder Thiel has bought land and bunkers in NZ to escape to when the fettucine hits the fan with massive social unrest and protests
 
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Its about time we expose the bureaucracy for waste and abuse. Its been a long time coming. This is definitely a bi partisan issue. Who could possibly be against reviewing govt records potentially exposing their inefficiency?
This shows how fucking disingenuous you people are.

Definitely a bipartisan issue, yet only Donald Trump's personal unelected campaign donor oligarch and a bunch of 18 year old tech bros are the ones making the determination? Where is the bipartisanship?

Exposing inefficiency, yet the "department" responsible for pulling back that veil is not subject to the same transparency? We're just supposed to take Elon Musk's word for it, despite the fact that he's already been exposed as a liar, and even admitted that not everything he says is true? This is Gestapo-level shit, only using misinformation instead of violence.

USAID, Department of Education, Department of Labor...etc. The Project 2025 playbook come to life. Except for human shit stains like yourself, that's a feature, not a bug.
 
The other day CNBC had on the head of a private defense firm which has just assumed Microsoft's $21.8 billion contract to provide Augmented Reality headsets to the Pentagon. The person, irony amd conflict of interest meters disabled, effusively complimented Musk for going after govt waste and excessive govt contracts.
 
This shows how fucking disingenuous you people are.

Definitely a bipartisan issue, yet only Donald Trump's personal unelected campaign donor oligarch and a bunch of 18 year old tech bros are the ones making the determination? Where is the bipartisanship?

Exposing inefficiency, yet the "department" responsible for pulling back that veil is not subject to the same transparency? We're just supposed to take Elon Musk's word for it, despite the fact that he's already been exposed as a liar, and even admitted that not everything he says is true? This is Gestapo-level shit, only using misinformation instead of violence.

USAID, Department of Education, Department of Labor...etc. The Project 2025 playbook come to life. Except for human shit stains like yourself, that's a feature, not a bug.
You sound like Maxine Waters etc. What are you hiding?
 
Which means MAGAts are being deceived. Shocking I know from the crowd that if Trump and Musk shit and pissed in a bucket they would shower in it and tell you how clean they are.
Exactly. MAGAs are begging to be deceived. It is the definition of confirmation bias. They want to believe it so badly their brains won’t permit them to be skeptical of obvious bullshit.
 
Flippant response about our country turning into a 3rd World cesspool.

You braindead cucks let Trump and Musk bukkake all over your faces, and you wipe your chin and ask for seconds.

You're fucking pathetic.
Wayne, the gift that keeps on giving. You're just another prime example of why the dem party is flailing in the wind. Its ok to recognize the fraud DOGE is presenting. You're a taxpayer too. I see the left only offers hate and dismisses govt waste and fraud every chance they get.
 
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