“Eat the Rich” memes spread, but is it a political movement?

[4heels4evr]

[watch you do not get what you deserve] [MOD Note - if this is a joke I missed it — it sounds like a threat, which would cross a red line here — leaving it up for now in case I just misunderstood irony or something]

I am a nonviolent person and would never support any violence as a solution in any situation, I am completely against war. I was just saying there can be consequences for certain behaviors and this could be one. Again I do not support violence in any area of life.

 

[Callatoroy]

The ultra rich have inflicted countless injuries upon working people and the poor for decades and decades. Apparently it’s only class war when the lower class starts to fight back.

AND

They have created millions of jobs and thousands of millionaires and contributed billions to charitable causes. Gladly take this system over any other in the world. Where else can a boy born in Keny…er…Hawaii grow up to be potus with a net worth of less than $1 million and now be worth almost $100 million.

 

[lawtig02]

AND

They have created millions of jobs and thousands of millionaires and contributed billions to charitable causes. Gladly take this system over any other in the world. Where else can a boy born in Keny…er…Hawaii grow up to be potus with a net worth of less than $1 million and now be worth almost $100 million.

Anywhere it’s legal to write bestselling books?

 

[Willy]

It seems to me that "eat the rich" is really only focused on ultra-rich executives, at least at this point. There are plenty entertainers and athletes with net worths that dwarf the UHC CEO, but I don't believe they have quite the disdain. If this does spread, my guess (as an outsider and political moderate who believes this shit is stupid), is that the primary targets will be executives in healthcare and healthcare adjacent, banking, real estate. Industries where people feel they have been taken advantage of.

 

[BubbaOtis]

Have you heard of FICA and excise taxes?

Yeah, I to was including that in the SS in my mind.

Have you heard of FICA and excise taxes?

Yeah... I was including FICA in the SS part.
Not sure what you can do about the excise taxes, as they're not income/wealth based. If you buy a gallon of gas, you're going to, and should, pay the taxes to maintain the roads on which you're driving. What can you do? Issue a "I'm a poor person" ID card to exempt them?
And the nanny government can't resist onerous " sin taxes" as they're "for your own good".
I challenge you to name a more regressive tax than tobacco and alcohol taxes. Should we scrap them ?

 

[finesse]

Not sure that I consider tobacco and alcohol taxes regressive. The heavier the user, the more demands they are going to make on the system in terms of health care, accidents, etc. Why shouldn't they be paying extra?

 

[BubbaOtis]

Not sure that I consider tobacco and alcohol taxes regressive. The heavier the user, the more demands they are going to make on the system in terms of health care, accidents, etc. Why shouldn't they be paying extra?

Because they're poor. Keep up!

I think I've drug the conversation too far into the tax angle. I just think taxes are far from being a determining factor in the Eat the Rich movement, assuming it even exists . I'd bet most of those posting this stuff on the Internet are actually quite affluent.

 

[finesse]

Because they're poor. Keep up!

I think I've drug the conversation too far into the tax angle. I just think taxes are far from being a determining factor in the Eat the Rich movement, assuming it even exists . I'd bet most of those posting this stuff on the Internet are actually quite affluent

Poor is not an excuse for poisoning yourself. I don't care if you do, but I don't want to hear about either the damage to your health or bank account.

 

[Paine]

By the way, eat the rich has been around long before the UHC killing. Young(er) people have been saying it since at least 2015. This isn’t a new thing. And from my experience, the sentiment tends to hold across ideological/partisan lines among young people. We’ve been radicalized but nothing has set it completely off yet.

 

[finesse]

By the way, eat the rich has been around long before the UHC killing. Young(er) people have been saying it since at least 2015. This isn’t a new thing. And from my experience, the sentiment tends to hold across ideological/partisan lines among young people. We’ve been radicalized but nothing has set it completely off yet.

Or even longer. This is where I first heard it.

The phrase “Eat the Rich” is often attributed to Jean-Jacques Rousseau, a political philosopher and leader of the French Revolution. The original quote is, “When the people shall have nothing more to eat, they will eat the rich”.

 

[nycfan]

By the way, eat the rich has been around long before the UHC killing. Young(er) people have been saying it since at least 2015. This isn’t a new thing. And from my experience, the sentiment tends to hold across ideological/partisan lines among young people. We’ve been radicalized but nothing has set it completely off yet.

Yes, it had a growth period in 2020, as well, before fading a bit. But was wondering whether the embrace of “St. Luigi” is giving it purpose and a “martyr” to build around.

But it has been around since at least the French Revolution (“When the people shall have nothing more to eat, they will eat the rich”, widely but not clearly attributed to Rousseau), which is certainly an alarming origin …

@finesse beat me to it.

 

[Paine]

Yes, it had a growth period in 2020, as well, before fading a bit. But was wondering whether the embrace of “St. Luigi” is giving it purpose and a “martyr” to build around.

But it has been around since at least the French Revolution (“When the people shall have nothing more to eat, they will eat the rich”, widely but not clearly attributed to Rousseau), which is certainly an alarming origin …

@finesse beat me to it.

Depends on who’s ringing the alarm bells.

 

[Paine]

Which brings me to another thing I wanted to ask y’all who said this.

What exactly is so alarming about left wing populism?

 

[BubbaOtis]

Not sure that I consider tobacco and alcohol taxes regressive. The heavier the user, the more demands they are going to make on the system in terms of health care, accidents, etc. Why shouldn't they be paying extra?

Excise taxes are mentioned in the definition of regressive taxes, actually..

Regressive Tax: Definition and Types of Taxes That Are Regressive

A regressive tax is one that's applied uniformly regardless of income, unlike a progressive tax which is based on income. It places a bigger burden on low-income earners.

www.investopedia.com

Ok, I'm done..

 

[nycfan]

Which brings me to another thing I wanted to ask y’all who said this.

What exactly is so alarming about left wing populism?

 

[StrangePackage]

 

[lawtig02]

Which brings me to another thing I wanted to ask y’all who said this.

What exactly is so alarming about left wing populism?

Ok, I'll take this on.

1. The reaction to Mangione is a good case study. I have no sympathy for UHC. Brian Thompson may have been a terrible person. But the embrace of Mangione as some kind of populist hero is extremely disturbing to me. Violence begets violence, and it almost never begets anything other than more violence.

2. I'll pose a question to you -- what did you think about the CHIPS Act? That might be the most anti-populist bill passed by a Dem-controlled Congress in recent memory. It will use taxpayer dollars to support an industry that is highly automated and unlikely to reinvest much capital in American communities. It may even have the effect of increasing the cost of "necessities" like phones and cars for working class Americans. But in my view, it's one of the most important bills passed under Biden's stewardship. Would a populist-controlled Dem Party support legislation like that?

3. I've written about this on here in the past, but in my view, populism can only be supportive of democracy in social structures characterized by relatively high levels of trust and low levels of partisanship. Scandanavian countries, for example, can employ populist policies to great effect. Same with Switzerland. In countries with relatively low levels of social trust and high levels of partisanship, populism is far more likely to lead to authoritarianism. It's easy to remember that Hitler came to power based largely on populist rhetoric, but so did Lenin. And I don't see any way you could argue that the US circa 2024 is more socially aligned with Denmark or Switzerland than it is with 1934 Germany.

 

[Peppers49]

Where else can a boy born in Keny…er…Hawaii grow up to be potus

This had potential, but a swing and a miss on the execution unfortunately. 3/10.

 

[Paine]

Ok, I'll take this on.

1. The reaction to Mangione is a good case study. I have no sympathy for UHC. Brian Thompson may have been a terrible person. But the embrace of Mangione as some kind of populist hero is extremely disturbing to me. Violence begets violence, and it almost never begets anything other than more violence.

2. I'll pose a question to you -- what did you think about the CHIPS Act? That might be the most anti-populist bill passed by a Dem-controlled Congress in recent memory. It will use taxpayer dollars to support an industry that is highly automated and unlikely to reinvest much capital in American communities. It may even have the effect of increasing the cost of "necessities" like phones and cars for working class Americans. But in my view, it's one of the most important bills passed under Biden's stewardship. Would a populist-controlled Dem Party support legislation like that?

3. I've written about this on here in the past, but in my view, populism can only be supportive of democracy in social structures characterized by relatively high levels of trust and low levels of partisanship. Scandanavian countries, for example, can employ populist policies to great effect. Same with Switzerland. In countries with relatively low levels of social trust and high levels of partisanship, populism is far more likely to lead to authoritarianism. It's easy to remember that Hitler came to power based largely on populist rhetoric, but so did Lenin. And I don't see any way you could argue that the US circa 2024 is more socially aligned with Denmark or Switzerland than it is with 1934 Germany.

I think where we get lost is in what populism means. There is no equivalent between left-wing populism and right-wing demagoguery. Whenever someone starts to talk like this, it quickly devolves into horseshoe theory BS.

Populism has a definition, and it’s one that every American should be familiar with based on our own history. The populist movement started in Kansas as a movement of agrarians who stood against capital’s domination of the Republican and Democratic parties. They wanted average Americans to be able to make their own political decisions, especially when it came to economics.

The rise of Trump has seen people forget this. Perhaps because the traditional liberal and conservative intelligentsia was so keen on labeling Trump as a populist. You saw this with people trying to paint Trump and Sanders as two sides of the same coin, which is just absolute garbage.

I don’t really follow your example about the CHIPs act being anti-populist. Any piece of legislation passed by the American Congress is “anti-populist” by some definition. We should be making computer chips at home, and a populist movement would’ve had that happen long before 2021, IMO.

This whole conversation is also indicative of the anti-populist attitude that has pervaded the Democratic Party’s intellectual class and led to their losses against Trump. This idea that Americans are just too stupid to make their own political decisions. Anti-populism has led us over the cliff, yet people still want to embrace it. Maybe it will work this time? How do you think trust is created within a political system? How is partisanship tamped down? Republicanism has not accomplished either of these.

The Mangione episode is extremely troubling, you’re right. It’s troubling that people are so fed up with our political system that they are willing to cheer on vigilante killings. How do we build an inclusive and democratic political system that wins back trust? Not by being anti-populist. You do it by actually having a political system in which the people’s voice is heard and listened to over the interests of the rich and powerful.

 

[chrissteel]

Socialism is of course the answer.