Five years since George Floyd

[ZZLPHeels]

George Floyd was murdered five years ago today. His death led to widespread condemnation and also widespread violence and civil unrest. In the aftermath, numerous reforms at policing were initiated, some of which have stuck and some of which have been abandoned.

What has changed? Has social justice and law enforcement reform made a significant impact in the US? I'd argue that we're no better off than we were five years ago, and might actually be worse off in some ways.

One good thing is that the number of unarmed people killed by the police is down. However, the number of people killed by the police overall has risen:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/us/police-killings-george-floyd.html

Last week, federal consent decrees aimed at several departments including Louisville and Minneapolis were dropped:

Justice Department ending probes of Minneapolis and Louisville police departments

The Justice Department said it will bring an end to investigations launched during the Biden administration after the deaths of George Floyd in Minneapolis and Breonna Taylor in Louisville.

www.cbsnews.com

So where do we go from here? We're as divided as ever. Was George Floyd's murder a symptom of a larger problem regarding police brutality and black people, or was it simply a one-off event that was rightfully prosecuted and should now be allowed to fade into history?

 

[05C40]

One aspect of the Floyd case that I always felt was under-reported was that Floyd and the man who murdered him worked as bouncers at the same place. The murderer as a side gig from being a policeman. Floyd was an inside bouncer and his murderer was an outside bouncer. My understanding is that the inside position was the more prestigious of the two. Floyd's technique for handling trouble inside was to just get between the antagonists, be friendly, courteous, and controlled. He was so big and so courteous, that it turned out to be a really intimidating combination. But worse for guy who murdered Floyd, it was embarassing. Because when the murderer worked outside, his first, last, and only move was to hit first and hit hard. And the murderer could bust heads with impunity because his "day job" was as a cop. It must have infuriated the murderer to see a black man have the better job, do that job better than he could, and do that job without having to (or probably more accurately getting to) bust heads. So when the murderer got the chance to show Floyd how it should be done, the murderer just went beserker on Floyd because of how mad he was that Floyd had the better job and did it better.

 

[HandsonFire]

When will America be truly great again, where cops can just beat the blacks and browns to death with no consequences…. Stupid laws don’t apply to cops just like our president, if you interfere with the duties of either you deserve to die…. Long live Cheetoh King!!!!!!

/s

 

[finesse]

One aspect of the Floyd case that I always felt was under-reported was that Floyd and the man who murdered him worked as bouncers at the same place. The murderer as a side gig from being a policeman. Floyd was an inside bouncer and his murderer was an outsode bouncer. My understanding is that the inside position was the more prestigious of the two. Floyd's technique for handling trouble inside was to just get between the antagonists, be friendly, courteous, and controlled. He was so big and so courteous, that it turned out to be a really intimidating combination. But worse for guy who murdered Floyd, it was embarassing. Because when the murderer worked outside, his first, last, and only move was to hit first amd hit hard. And the murderer could bust heads with impunity because his "day job" was as a cop. It must have infuriated the murderer to see a black man have the better job, do that job better than he could, and do that job without having to (or probably more accurately getting to) bust heads. So when the murderer got the chance to show Floyd how it should be done, the murderer just went beserker on Floyd because of how mad he was that Floyd had the better job and did it better.

Not doubting you but as a background for further research, do you have a link as a starting point? First I've heard of this. That's mostly because of lack of attention but this has caught mine.

I'm fairly incurious about stories of inhumanity and acts of violence and prejudice. Seen it all my life and read about it all through history. Seems to ebb and flow like the tide, at least as far as their expression in public but ,like the water, it doesn't disappear. As far as the current climate , it looks like a spring tide to me.

 

[Bigs23]

The reaction/backlash to Floyd’s murder was a fleeting moment in time that ultimately led to little to no progress and resulted in an evil backlash.

 

[05C40]

Not doubting you but as a background for further research, do you have a link as a starting point? First I've heard of this. That's mostly because of lack of attention but this has caught mine.

I'm fairly incurious about stories of inhumanity and acts of violence and prejudice. Seen it all my life and read about it all through history. Seems to ebb and flow like the tide, at least as far as their expression in public but ,like the water, it doesn't disappear. As far as the current climate , it looks like a spring tide to me.

Murder of George Floyd - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

George Floyd and Derek Chauvin worked at same club and may have crossed paths, owner says

The owner of El Nuevo Rodeo said the two men both worked security during a popular weekly event.

www.cbsnews.com

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/29/us/george-floyd-officer-derek-chauvin-security-club-trnd

ETA: No link for this, but it would not surprise me to find out that the owner of the night club where Floyd worked was told by the police to keep her mouth shut about everything but the most basic facts in this case and that if she appeared to be taking sides against the police, there would be consequences.

 

[ZZLPHeels]

Murder of George Floyd - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

George Floyd and Derek Chauvin worked at same club and may have crossed paths, owner says

The owner of El Nuevo Rodeo said the two men both worked security during a popular weekly event.

www.cbsnews.com

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/29/us/george-floyd-officer-derek-chauvin-security-club-trnd

Interesting. I don't think that jives with your theory you mentioned above, though. The CBS article states that Chauvin was hired to sit outside in uniform in his marked patrol car. That doesn't seem "less prestigious" than being inside. Cops side outside in their patrol cars all the time at venues to provide security. The owner probably just didn't want uniformed police officers hanging out inside the nightclub.

 

[finesse]

Murder of George Floyd - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

George Floyd and Derek Chauvin worked at same club and may have crossed paths, owner says

The owner of El Nuevo Rodeo said the two men both worked security during a popular weekly event.

www.cbsnews.com

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/29/us/george-floyd-officer-derek-chauvin-security-club-trnd

Thanks.

 

[nycfan]

5 Years After George Floyd’s Murder, the​

—> https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/25/...e_code=1.J08.Y1Hz.d1Fz6iyU5qmO&smid=url-share

“Black Lives Matter Plaza is gone from Washington, D.C. The bold yellow letters that once protested police violence are now paved over, though police killings nationally are actually up.

The Justice Department has abandonedoversight agreements for police forces accused of racial bias, even as it begins an investigation of Chicago after the city’s Black mayor praised the number of Black people in top city jobs. The U.S. refugee resettlement program is effectively shut down, but white South Africans have been granted an exception.

Sunday is the fifth anniversary of George Floyd’s murder by a Minneapolis police officer, a searing moment of brutality that ignited what may have been the largest social movement in U.S. history. Five years later, the movement that his death helped begin may feel like it’s in reverse.

There has always been a rhythm to American social movements: forward momentum followed by backlash. Abolitionism’s triumph gave way to the Ku Klux Klan and the end of Reconstruction. Civil rights marches dissipated, as Richard M. Nixon and his “silent majority” rose to power.

But even by historical standards, the current retrenchment feels swift and stark. Five years ago, Republicans and Democrats shared the nation’s streets to denounce police violence and proclaim that Black lives matter. Now, Donald J. Trump, a president who has long championed white grievance, is setting the tone of racial discourse.

To conservatives, the shift is a necessary course correction away from violence in the streets and crippling mandates that overburden police departments.

… Earlier this month, the Pew Research Center found that 72 percent of Americans say “the increased focus on race and racial inequality after Floyd’s killing did not lead to changes that improved the lives of Black people.”

The popularity of the Black Lives Matter movement has dipped 15 percentage points from its June 2020 peak, though a slight majority of the public still voiced support.…”

 

[05C40]

Interesting. I don't think that jives with your theory you mentioned above, though. The CBS article states that Chauvin was hired to sit outside in uniform in his marked patrol car. That doesn't seem "less prestigious" than being inside. Cops side outside in their patrol cars all the time at venues to provide security. The owner probably just didn't want uniformed police officers hanging out inside the nightclub.

It depends. If the offier in question believed the best part of a policeman's job was busting some mouthy punk's head, then having to sit outside in a police car unable to act until summoned, then having to wait until summoned would be pretty tough.

 

[Mulberry Heel]

The reaction/backlash to Floyd’s murder was a fleeting moment in time that ultimately led to little to no progress and resulted in an evil backlash.

Yep. There started to be some progress - I remember even some cop shows at the time started referencing his murder and had cop characters on the show talking about the need to change how policing works - but this (long overdue) activity and reform movements created an enormous backlash among conservatives that has actually moved things backwards in many ways. Certainly anything related to "Black Lives Matter" has been a prominent target of Trump's anti-DEI efforts, and painting over Black Lives Matter murals and artwork is a symbol of that. It's the classic white conservative thing of if you don't see it yourself anywhere then it's "out of sight, out of mind" and you don't have to think about it anymore.

 

[UNCMSinLS]

Yep. There started to be some progress - I remember even some cop shows at the time started referencing his murder and had cop characters on the show talking about the need to change how policing works - but this (long overdue) activity and reform movements created an enormous backlash among conservatives that has actually moved things backwards in many ways. Certainly anything related to "Black Lives Matter" has been a prominent target of Trump's anti-DEI efforts, and painting over Black Lives Matter murals and artwork is a symbol of that. It's the classic white conservative thing of if you don't see it yourself anywhere then it's "out of sight, out of mind" and you don't have to think about it anymore.

I object to the use of one word in your post - "conservatives". "Racists" is the more appropriate nomenclature.

 

[ZZLPHeels]

Yep. There started to be some progress - I remember even some cop shows at the time started referencing his murder and had cop characters on the show talking about the need to change how policing works - but this (long overdue) activity and reform movements created an enormous backlash among conservatives that has actually moved things backwards in many ways. Certainly anything related to "Black Lives Matter" has been a prominent target of Trump's anti-DEI efforts, and painting over Black Lives Matter murals and artwork is a symbol of that. It's the classic white conservative thing of if you don't see it yourself anywhere then it's "out of sight, out of mind" and you don't have to think about it anymore.

I don't think the backlash was limited to conservatives. There was a lot of anger after Floyd's murder but the riots and destruction that came later and then the attempts to gaslight people into believing that it didn't happen, coupled with a massive spike in violent crime across the country, led many people to say "enough is enough." IMO the far left went too far with some of their reforms and kneecapped the police reform movement. "Abolish the police" and "defund the police" were horrible slogans that didn't appeal to middle America.

 

[finesse]

I don't think the backlash was limited to conservatives. There was a lot of anger after Floyd's murder but the riots and destruction that came later and then the attempts to gaslight people into believing that it didn't happen, coupled with a massive spike in violent crime across the country, led many people to say "enough is enough." IMO the far left went too far with some of their reforms and kneecapped the police reform movement. "Abolish the police" and "defund the police" were horrible slogans that didn't appeal to middle America.

Can you actually show that massive spike in crime and compare it to say, anytime since 1970?

Do you think the amount spent on law enforcement is generally well spent and justified by results?

 

[Healing]

I don't think the backlash was limited to conservatives. There was a lot of anger after Floyd's murder but the riots and destruction that came later and then the attempts to gaslight people into believing that it didn't happen, coupled with a massive spike in violent crime across the country, led many people to say "enough is enough." IMO the far left went too far with some of their reforms and kneecapped the police reform movement. "Abolish the police" and "defund the police" were horrible slogans that didn't appeal to middle America.

So we can ground the discussion, which reforms “went too far left”?

 

[ZZLPHeels]

Can you actually show that massive spike in crime and compare it to say, anytime since 1970?

Do you think the amount spent on law enforcement is generally well spent and justified by results?

Sure. The 28% spike in homicides from 2019 to 2020 was the largest single year hike since those statistics began being recorded in the United States:

Why Violence Spiked in 2020, in One Graph

The Thanksgiving Edition!

johnkroman.substack.com

There are plenty of opposing theories as to why that happened. It may have been related to the George Floyd aftermath, it may have had nothing to do with it, or it may have been somewhere in the middle. Even if we accept the theory that the spike in homicides from 2020-2022 was not tied to the aftermath of the Floyd murder, it was the unluckiest of coincidences for the police reform movement. You aren't going to convince many people to invest less in the police when homicides are skyrocketing, regardless of the reason.

With regard to your second question, I would say "yes" but I would say that more needs to be done. We need the police, and we need more of them in many places. But we also need to improve our social safety net and work at addressing the root causes of crime, the biggest of which is poverty.

 

[ZZLPHeels]

So we can ground the discussion, which reforms “went too far left”?

That's largely a matter of personal opinion, but in my opinion the "abolish the police" movement and the unsuccessful movement to completely dismantle the Minneapolis Police Department went too far to the left. Another well publicized failure happened in Washington, where state law made it illegal for the police to chase people. Crime and traffic fatalities skyrocketed, and the law ended up being repealed. In Atlanta, officials completely folded when violent armed gangs took over the city, and as a result a little girl was murdered by one of the vigilante mobs that the police had been instructed to ignore. People don't like police violence, but people also really don't like feeling unsafe.

 

[finesse]

Sure. The 28% spike in homicides from 2019 to 2020 was the largest single year hike since those statistics began being recorded in the United States:

Why Violence Spiked in 2020, in One Graph

The Thanksgiving Edition!

johnkroman.substack.com

There are plenty of opposing theories as to why that happened. It may have been related to the George Floyd aftermath, it may have had nothing to do with it, or it may have been somewhere in the middle. Even if we accept the theory that the spike in homicides from 2020-2022 was not tied to the aftermath of the Floyd murder, it was the unluckiest of coincidences for the police reform movement. You aren't going to convince many people to invest less in the police when homicides are skyrocketing, regardless of the reason.

With regard to your second question, I would say "yes" but I would say that more needs to be done. We need the police, and we need more of them in many places. But we also need to improve our social safety net and work at addressing the root causes of crime, the biggest of which is poverty.

That is noise without context.

What the data says about crime in the U.S.

Federal statistics show dramatic declines in U.S. violent and property crime rates since the early 1990s.

www.pewresearch.org

This will provide context. Sort through these graph and you'll see that spike never came close to matching crime in the 80s , 90s and early 2000s. That's actual numbers and not a clever math stunt.

You'll also find if you bother to look that the police are, despite the dramatic decrease in crime (and increase in their budgets) are solving a decreasing percentage of them

 

[ZZLPHeels]

That is noise without context.

What the data says about crime in the U.S.

Federal statistics show dramatic declines in U.S. violent and property crime rates since the early 1990s.

www.pewresearch.org

This will provide context. Sort through these graph and you'll see that spike never came close to matching crime in the 80s , 90s and early 2000s. That's actual numbers and not a clever math stunt.

You'll also find if you bother to look that the police are, despite the dramatic decrease in crime (and increase in their budgets) are solving a decreasing percentage of them

I don't think a 28% increase in homicides from one year to the next is a math stunt. I think that is a substantial, real-life problem for a lot of people. Also, a lot of people weren't exactly adults in the 70s or 80s. They don't care if crime is lower now than it was in 1972. They do care if violent crime is 30% higher this year than it was last year. Let's compare the crime rate to the prevalence of measles in the United States. That stuff was really, really bad a century ago. But there's a lot of noise being made about it right now because of the outbreaks that have occurred in different parts of the country. Telling people, "don't worry about the antivaxxers, measles is nowhere near as bad as it was 100 years ago" isn't going to win many of them over. They don't care about that. They care about now.

 

[finesse]

I don't think a 28% increase in homicides from one year to the next is a math stunt. I think that is a substantial, real-life problem for a lot of people. Also, a lot of people weren't exactly adults in the 70s or 80s. They don't care if crime is lower now than it was in 1972. They do care if violent crime is 30% higher this year than it was last year. Let's compare the crime rate to the prevalence of measles in the United States. That stuff was really, really bad a century ago. But there's a lot of noise being made about it right now because of the outbreaks that have occurred in different parts of the country. Telling people, "don't worry about the antivaxxers, measles is nowhere near as bad as it was 100 years ago" isn't going to win many of them over. They don't care about that. They care about now.

Didn't matter much. Crime started declining again in 23 and they didn't notice. Instead, they re-elected the idiot in charge when it started.

Here's a pretty good article on the spike. They argue that Floyd's death wasn't the root cause or the start. They blame in on the spike of unemployment in poor neighbors and teenagers out of school with nothing to do.

Why did U.S. homicides spike in 2020 and then decline rapidly in 2023 and 2024?

In 2020, the average U.S. city experienced a surge in its homicide rate of almost 30%—the fastest spike ever recorded in the country.

www.brookings.edu