Good faith privately-funded White House ballroom discussion

[Callatoroy]

Maybe had he actually had a plan, he could have followed precedent and gotten support. But, since he did his normal react before thinking and having no plan, he created the situation.

To even mention democrat support at this point is purely ignorant and ignoring how we got here.

But we are here. And what we do now is what matters most at this point.

 

[UNCatTech]

We are just to far apart on this issue.

Because you follow the maga play book like you are supposed to.

There's no support for his position other than dear leader commanded it.

I bet you are a nice guy, in real life, as long as political conversations don't come up or your with people that completely agree with you, you seem smart and educated, so it's puzzling why when talking politics you sound like a fox news host.


Also, remember that dear leader promised no new wars. Something which I completely agree with. In this day and age we shouldn't be bombing other countries and provoking wars.

Russia has nukes and has a pieces of shit leader for decades, why do we choose to bomb Iran and not Russia?

 

[lawtig02]

No. I think the lack of democrat support putts tremendous pressure on him to leave with things only partially done. Im hoping he is determined to finish the job despite the pressure. Even if it costs the midterms. I would rather finish it and lose the midterms than partially finish and win the midterms.

This is not a Democrat issue. Independents also oppose this war by a large margin. Republicans are the outliers on this, and I absolutely guarantee they would not support this poorly planned, poorly executed war if Trump wasn’t in the White House.

The Iran War is Dividing America Along Party Lines

Recent polls show Democrats and Independents oppose US policy toward the conflict, while Republicans back the Trump administration's approach.

globalaffairs.org

 

[UNCatTech]

But we are here. And what we do now is what matters most at this point.

No, if he keeps getting his way and we keep helping to get him out of the shit he starts, how will he, or others, ever learn.

If it were up to me, I'd stop selling Israel weapons and giving them money, while also going into real negations with Iran and all the other countries we've managed to piss off since the orange turd took over.

And of course I would also start prosecuting everyone in the Epstein files, no matter their political affiliation.

 

[UNCatTech]

No. I think the lack of democrat support putts tremendous pressure on him to leave with things only partially done. Im hoping he is determined to finish the job despite the pressure. Even if it costs the midterms. I would rather finish it and lose the midterms than partially finish and win the midterms.

You know he's going to taco. He didn't have a plan to start with, the only thing he actually cares about is money, so he's going to respond based on how the stock market responds. He doesn't care about the midterms, it's all about him and he knows he cant run again, so his focus is on building monuments to himself and putting his name on everything he can.

 

[Callatoroy]

My view on this issue doesn’t remotely come from Fox. Fox cant bring itself to acknowledge any mistakes made. There have been several, some critical. Im not debating that. Do those really matter today? They will matter when it’s time for Monday morning qb’ing, but what we do going forward is all that matters right now. Democrats should support finishing the job because not doing so would be a disaster for the country. So if your trump hatred is stronger than all the good for the US and the world finishing the job would do, then not much more we can discuss on this topic.

 

[Callatoroy]

This is not a Democrat issue. Independents also oppose this war by a large margin. Republicans are the outliers on this, and I absolutely guarantee they would not support this poorly planned, poorly executed war if Trump wasn’t in the White House.

The Iran War is Dividing America Along Party Lines

Recent polls show Democrats and Independents oppose US policy toward the conflict, while Republicans back the Trump administration's approach.

globalaffairs.org

The overall issue certainly isn’t a democratic issue. But the most pressure being applied right now is coming from the left. I would be surprised if you supported just packing up tomorrow and leaving. How we finish or not finish matters and will affect us all.

 

[UNCatTech]

My view on this issue doesn’t remotely come from Fox. Fox cant bring itself to acknowledge any mistakes made. There have been several, some critical. Im not debating that. Do those really matter today? They will matter when it’s time for Monday morning qb’ing, but what we do going forward is all that matters right now. Democrats should support finishing the job because not doing so would be a disaster for the country. So if your trump hatred is stronger than all the good for the US and the world finishing the job would do, then not much more we can discuss on this topic.

This has nothing to do with Trump hatred. It was the wrong decision, and it shouldn’t be supported.

Unfortunately, you remind me somewhat of myself when I fell for the weapons of mass destruction lies before the Iraq War. The propaganda about Iran sounds a lot like the propaganda we heard about Saddam Hussein’s Iraq supposedly having weapons of mass destruction. We all know how that ended. The U.S. invaded Iraq in 2003, and the claimed WMD stockpiles were not found.

We don’t need another 20-year quagmire in the middle east.

 

[UNCatTech]

The overall issue certainly isn’t a democratic issue. But the most pressure being applied right now is coming from the left. I would be surprised if you supported just packing up tomorrow and leaving. How we finish or not finish matters and will affect us all.

Maybe start actual negotiations and show good faith by removing most of the military. But the maga crowd would see that as cowardly.

 

[1moretimeagain]

No. I think the lack of democrat support putts tremendous pressure on him to leave with things only partially done. Im hoping he is determined to finish the job despite the pressure. Even if it costs the midterms. I would rather finish it and lose the midterms than partially finish and win the midterms.

What does your view of “finishing the job” entail?

 

[sringwal]

The overall issue certainly isn’t a democratic issue. But the most pressure being applied right now is coming from the left. I would be surprised if you supported just packing up tomorrow and leaving. How we finish or not finish matters and will affect us all.

This administration has, and continues to, leave democrats out of the equation. If Trump wanted our support, he would have come to us and asked for comprise, rather than painting the left as "the greatest enemy" to the United States. Threatening is not the way to reach across the party aisle.

 

[superrific]

I would be surprised if you supported just packing up tomorrow and leaving.

I do. It's the only sensible course of action. Staying is merely about Trump's ego and your blind loyalty.

 

[Callatoroy]

What does your view of “finishing the job” entail?

Minimum of getting the uranium / ending nuke program and strait being opened in pre February way

 

[lawtig02]

The overall issue certainly isn’t a democratic issue. But the most pressure being applied right now is coming from the left. I would be surprised if you supported just packing up tomorrow and leaving. How we finish or not finish matters and will affect us all.

If I were tasked with cleaning up the shitshow Trump and Hegseth have created, I’d start with something like this —

1. The US will immediately remove its blockade and Iran will immediately allow free passage through Hormuz.

2. The US will purchase Iranian oil at a modest premium for a period of time to refill our reserves and give Iran additional funds to rebuild the civilian infrastructure we destroyed.

3. Iran will agree to forego any nuclear weapon ambitions, and in exchange, the US will use its own nuclear arsenal to prevent and, if necessary, respond to any nuclear attack on Iran, including by Israel. The IAEA will have the right to inspect Iran’s nuclear facilities in the same way it is permitted to inspect other nations’ facilities.

4. Iran will immediately cease funding or supporting the military capabilities of its regional proxies.

5. US companies will be permitted (encouraged?) to invest in Iran, and Iran will weigh such investment opportunities the same as those presented by any other nation.

6. As long as Iran complies with these conditions, financial sanctions on Iran will be lifted, except Iran will be prohibited from selling or transmitting oil or weapons to Russia at least until the Ukraine war is ended.

 

[Mulberry Heel]

Maybe start actual negotiations and show good faith by removing most of the military. But the maga crowd would see that as cowardly.

It's beyond absurd to blame Democrats for this stupid and utterly unnecessary war. This war is all on Donald J. Trump and Pete Hegseth. They started it without any support from our allies except for Israel, clearly had done no planning whatsoever for the consequences of their actions, were completely unprepared for Iran hitting back as hard as they did and for their ability to close the Persian Gulf to shipping, and when things went south they demanded that our allies that they had not consulted and have spent the past decade trashing should forget all that and help them. This war has been a disaster economically and for our international reputation and standing. We're a global laughingstock right now, as the German Chancellor said.

But according to Trumpers here and elsewhere it's all the Democratic Party's fault that we're not doing better and winning the war because we're holding Dear Leader responsible for his many failures and aren't backing him 100% in continuing this stupid conflict that we shouldn't be in. Sure, sure.

ETA: But I will add that it's completely unsurprising that they would say this, because in their minds everything bad that happens is the Democratic Party's fault.

 

[UNCatTech]

Minimum of getting the uranium / ending nuke program and strait being opened in pre February way

And why do we have any right to take anything from a sovereign nation? Why do you believe we are the police for the world?

Where do we stop? Do we take North Korea's nukes, Russian's....

The maga crowd sure is easily influenced by fear. There scared of religions that are different, people of different color, people who love different, people who believe different, people in other countries.... What are they not fearful of? I wish their space ghost would finally take them away like they keep praying for.

 

[Callatoroy]

This administration has, and continues to, leave democrats out of the equation. If Trump wanted our support, he would have come to us and asked for comprise, rather than painting the left as "the greatest enemy" to the United States. Threatening is not the way to reach across the party aisle.

This isn’t the SAVE Act or the ballroom. It’s the US in a military conflict. Whether you disagree that we should be there doesn’t really matter at this point because we are there. So you either support packing up and leaving things as they are now, or finishing. There will be plenty of time for pointing fingers and playing politics after it is concluded.

 

[Callatoroy]

And why do we have any right to take anything from a sovereign nation? Why do you believe we are the police for the world?

Where do we stop? Do we take North Korea's nukes, Russian's....

The maga crowd sure is easily influenced by fear. There scared of religions that are different, people of different color, people who love different, people who believe different, people in other countries.... What are they not fearful of? I wish their space ghost would finally take them away like they keep praying for.

What are the consequences of packing up and coming home tomorrow like you apparently are in favor of?

 

[BoonetheAiredale]

Callatoroy is arguing the bad side of the sunk cost fallacy. And Presidents LBJ and Bush both lived and died under that supposition when fighting wars. It would be wise for the current administration to reconsider future benefits irrespective of the political (and financial) costs already paid.

Ain't no way Democrats should support bad policy and action...just because "we're already in it". That may be the world's worst decision making.

The sunk cost fallacy is the tendency to continue investing in a decision based on past, irrecoverable costs rather than future benefits.​

Definition and Concept​

The sunk cost fallacy occurs when individuals allow past investments of time, money, or effort—known as sunk costs—to influence current decisions, even when abandoning the endeavor would be more rational ( PositivePsychology.com+2). Sunk costs are expenditures that cannot be recovered, and rational decision-making should focus solely on future costs and benefits ( Wikipedia+1). Ignoring sunk costs helps avoid the trap of "throwing good money after bad" ( Scribbr).

Psychological Basis​

This fallacy is rooted in loss aversion and emotional attachment. People feel that abandoning a project or relationship would waste prior investments, leading them to persist even when evidence suggests stopping is better ( Scribbr+1). Cognitive biases such as the status quo bias—a preference to maintain current commitments—also reinforce this behavior ( The Decision Lab).

Common Examples​

• Financial investments: Continuing to invest in a declining stock or failing business because of prior money spent ( The Decision Lab+1).
• Relationships: Staying in an unfulfilling relationship due to the time and emotional energy already invested ( The Decision Lab+1).
• Everyday decisions: Watching a boring movie to the end because you already paid for the ticket ( Scribbr).
• Career choices: Persisting in a career path that no longer aligns with personal goals because of prior education or training ( The Decision Lab).

Economic and Rational Perspective​

Economists emphasize that only prospective costs and benefits should guide decisions. Past expenditures are irrelevant to future outcomes, and rational actors should make choices based on expected future returns ( Wikipedia+1). For example, if a project initially projected to yield $120 million now has a value of $65 million after $30 million spent, continuing would be irrational; the decision should be based on future potential, not past spending ( Wikipedia).

Avoiding the Fallacy​

To overcome the sunk cost fallacy, focus on:

• Future-oriented thinking: Evaluate decisions based on potential outcomes rather than past investments ( PositivePsychology.com+1).
• Objective assessment: Consider alternatives and their expected benefits without emotional attachment to prior costs ( PositivePsychology.com).
• Awareness of biases: Recognize when loss aversion or commitment to the status quo is influencing your choices ( The Decision Lab+1).
  Understanding the sunk cost fallacy helps individuals and organizations make more rational, forward-looking decisions, reducing unnecessary losses and improving overall outcomes ( PositivePsychology.com+1).

 

[Callatoroy]

If I were tasked with cleaning up the shitshow Trump and Hegseth have created, I’d start with something like this —

1. The US will immediately remove its blockade and Iran will immediately allow free passage through Hormuz.

2. The US will purchase Iranian oil at a modest premium for a period of time to refill our reserves and give Iran additional funds to rebuild the civilian infrastructure we destroyed.

3. Iran will agree to forego any nuclear weapon ambitions, and in exchange, the US will use its own nuclear arsenal to prevent and, if necessary, respond to any nuclear attack on Iran, including by Israel. The IAEA will have the right to inspect Iran’s nuclear facilities in the same way it is permitted to inspect other nations’ facilities.

4. Iran will immediately cease funding or supporting the military capabilities of its regional proxies.

5. US companies will be permitted (encouraged?) to invest in Iran, and Iran will weigh such investment opportunities the same as those presented by any other nation.

6. As long as Iran complies with these conditions, financial sanctions on Iran will be lifted, except Iran will be prohibited from selling or transmitting oil or weapons to Russia at least until the Ukraine war is ended.

Ok, so pretty much what trump is demanding, or at least in the ballpark. So, what if Iran tells you go fuck yourself which is where we are?