Good faith privately-funded White House ballroom discussion

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lawtig02 said:
Oh?

en.wikipedia.org

Israeli settler violence - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

"Multiple reports have also described cases in which Israeli security forces were either accompanying or reportedly supporting the attackers, raising concerns over enforcement and accountability. A United Nations report found that out of 1,500 killings between 2017 and September 2025, Israeli authorities opened 112 investigations, resulting in only one conviction."
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I said for the most part. When the aggression is 75% against you, you are defensive
 
heelinhell said:
Check the thread title

The president does seem to have lost some interest in the war on Iran and addressing the economic concerns of the American public., but he is laser focused on the Ballroom, the Arch, and the DC public golf course.
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Trump has stated many times he doesn’t care about inflation or how his wrecking of the economy affects everyday Americans. I’ll repeat, he doesn’t care and he has said as much.
He cares very very much about slapping his name on anything and everything to leave some sort of bullshit authoritarian legacy.
 
UNCatTech said:
Three straight issue was caused by the war, you can't use that to justify the war.

No Iran having nukes wasn't the concern you want it to be. It was never justification for starting the war.

The war has hurt the economy, so trying to use the economy to justify the war. The economy would have been better if the orange turd hadn't started a war.

So using hypothetical to justify an unnecessary war. Iran didn't have nukes, they were not two weeks away. It's the saw lie that was used to invade Iraq. It was a lie then, it's a lie now.

We can't answer the "if Iran..." questions because they are fabricated hypotheticals.
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You are simply factually incorrect. Here are facts:

Iran possess 60% heu. It only takes weeks to go from that to weapons grade. Enough for 10 bombs
Iran has developed an icbm that is capable of reaching Western Europe
Trump has never backed off his claim that he would never allow Iran to have nukes. It has always been a justification
The pain to the economy so far has been minimal. The pain if we left would be 100 times worse because you are giving Iran the power to harm it whenever they choose.
 
Callatoroy said:
Distorting reality doesnt make your point. For the most part, Israel has been defensive. It isn’t / hasn’t taken unprovoked offensive actions. Even the current action isnt unprovoked as it is directly tied to Oct 7 and Iran’s publicly stated mission of annihilating Israel. That is the part of the argument this board acts like doesnt play a role. Forgetting or ignoring history doesnt make your argument stronger. This issue can’t be framed or defined by a 2 year window.
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Distorting reality, sort of the same as you using the term "what if Iran", since all of the statements about their nukes are fabrication since they didn't and don't have them. They were not two weeks away. Just more trump lies.
 
Callatoroy said:
You are simply factually incorrect. Here are facts:

Iran possess 60% heu. It only takes weeks to go from that to weapons grade. Enough for 10 bombs
Iran has developed an icbm that is capable of reaching Western Europe
Trump has never backed off his claim that he would never allow Iran to have nukes. It has always been a justification
The pain to the economy so far has been minimal. The pain if we left would be 100 times worse because you are giving Iran the power to harm it whenever they choose.
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But dear leader claimed to have obliterated their facilities last year, then they are suddenly two weeks away. Sounds like more WMD lies.
 
Enigma94 said:
These are the same exact lies that were told to get us into the Iraq/Afghanistan wars. $8 trillion later I don't see how anything has improved. There was a minute there when you were against wars in the Middle East and proclaiming America first is what matters, but the cult has proven too strong for you to remain loyal to whatever ideals you may have any given day.
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This board has no ability to think beyond this week. This is an America first issue. Allowing Israel to go to war with Iran unilaterally would be far more harmful to our economy for far longer than if we are controlling it. So far the economic impact has been minimal. So far we still have most of the ME on our side. So far the total loss of life has been limited. Unlike Iraq, Iran actually does have heu and icbms. Unlike Iraq Iran has stated their purpose in life is to kill Jews and they aren’t lying. It’s like a bunch of 9th graders who have no clue or understanding of how our national security would be affected or even what the issues affecting national security are. It isn’t limited to a military strike on US soil.
 
heelinhell said:
Check the thread title

The president does seem to have lost some interest in the war on Iran and addressing the economic concerns of the American public., but he is laser focused on the Ballroom, the Arch, and the DC public golf course.
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It was a joke.

I like the president way more than when he talks / tweets less. Like not at all. Never before, in the history of man (that I know of) has a person undermined himself by opening his mouth.
 
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Callatoroy said:
This board has no ability to think beyond this week. This is an America first issue. Allowing Israel to go to war with Iran unilaterally would be far more harmful to our economy for far longer than if we are controlling it. So far the economic impact has been minimal. So far we still have most of the ME on our side. So far the total loss of life has been limited. Unlike Iraq, Iran actually does have heu and icbms. Unlike Iraq Iran has stated their purpose in life is to kill Jews and they aren’t lying. It’s like a bunch of 9th graders who have no clue or understanding of how our national security would be affected or even what the issues affecting national security are. It isn’t limited to a military strike on US soil.
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No it's not. This isn't helping the average American. America first would unquestionably help Americans, this doesn't meet that criteria.
 
UNCatTech said:
Distorting reality, sort of the same as you using the term "what if Iran", since all of the statements about their nukes are fabrication since they didn't and don't have them. They were not two weeks away. Just more trump lies.
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Educate yourself. That isn’t coming from trump. That is coming from nuclear experts. I never said 2 weeks I don’t believe. How close would you like to cut it? A day or two? Or not at all, just let em have it?
 
Callatoroy said:
This board has no ability to think beyond this week. This is an America first issue. Allowing Israel to go to war with Iran unilaterally would be far more harmful to our economy for far longer than if we are controlling it. So far the economic impact has been minimal. So far we still have most of the ME on our side. So far the total loss of life has been limited. Unlike Iraq, Iran actually does have heu and icbms. Unlike Iraq Iran has stated their purpose in life is to kill Jews and they aren’t lying. It’s like a bunch of 9th graders who have no clue or understanding of how our national security would be affected or even what the issues affecting national security are. It isn’t limited to a military strike on US soil.
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I reject the idea that Iran would launch a nuke at first opportunity any more than I think NK would, which has been proven accurate and NK is just as or more insane as Iran is. This is the same kind of argument around Saddam's WMD's, that is we have to act before he does something terrible. So far you are correct on one count that the cost of this war hasn't been that great, but it is teetering on the verge of something much larger. I'm warning against making the same mistake again. I support selling arms to Israel as I believe it benefits our defense industry, but that's where it should stop. And beyond all of these points, when the POTUS is an unmitigated disaster of a decision maker it behooves us to stand against him getting us involved in another Middle Eastern war even more. This all also just glosses over the fact that Iran had negligible amounts of enriched uranium when the agreement was in place and only after Trump tore it up did they re-start their program. You can say they would have anyway until you are blue in the face, but the fact is the agreement was working and anything else is conjecture.
 
sringwal said:
Fair enough. I definitely have forgotten what thread I was postingon enough of the time that I wasn't certain.
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IF things play out like the link says and the pubs slipped money in, especially a billion, and that is used for the ballroom instead of private funds then I guess im on the zzl side of the issue. Now I have to take a shower and hope those cooties wash off.
 
Enigma94 said:
I reject the idea that Iran would launch a nuke at first opportunity any more than I think NK would, which has been proven accurate and NK is just as or more insane as Iran is. This is the same kind of argument around Saddam's WMD's, that is we have to act before he does something terrible. So far you are correct on one count that the cost of this war hasn't been that great, but it is teetering on the verge of something much larger. I'm warning against making the same mistake again. I support selling arms to Israel as I believe it benefits our defense industry, but that's where it should stop. And beyond all of these points, when the POTUS is an unmitigated disaster of a decision maker it behooves us to stand against him getting us involved in another Middle Eastern war even more. This all also just glosses over the fact that Iran had negligible amounts of enriched uranium when the agreement was in place and only after Trump tore it up did they re-start their program. You can say they would have anyway until you are blue in the face, but the fact is the agreement was working and anything else is conjecture.
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Iran is nothing like NK. Not anywhere close. Not in the same universe. As proven by history. But we sure as hell can learn from the mistake of letting NK have nukes and prevent it from happening again.

The decision to blockade Iran’s ports rather than continuing to bomb - good or bad?

You know what else isnt conjecture? The FACT that the agreement didn’t even touch on their missle program and that they had US permission to enrich uranium after 2030. So Iran has a delivery method that can reach 2500 miles. You guys are in pretzel mode dancing around that.

Let’s set aside all common sense for a second. Let’s assume Iran demanding weeks of notice and restricting certain areas from inspection didn’t give the impression that they would cheat. Iran abides by the agreement and spends the 15 years just working on developing icbms, which they did. It’s now 2030 and they now have been given the green light by the US to enrich uranium. It want take long to get it highly enriched and they have the missle capability to hit Europe. What now? What do you think Israel does?
 
Callatoroy said:
Iran is nothing like NK. Not anywhere close. Not in the same universe. As proven by history. But we sure as hell can learn from the mistake of letting NK have nukes and prevent it from happening again.

The decision to blockade Iran’s ports rather than continuing to bomb - good or bad?

You know what else isnt conjecture? The FACT that the agreement didn’t even touch on their missle program and that they had US permission to enrich uranium after 2030. So Iran has a delivery method that can reach 2500 miles. You guys are in pretzel mode dancing around that.

Let’s set aside all common sense for a second. Let’s assume Iran demanding weeks of notice and restricting certain areas from inspection didn’t give the impression that they would cheat. Iran abides by the agreement and spends the 15 years just working on developing icbms, which they did. It’s now 2030 and they now have been given the green light by the US to enrich uranium. It want take long to get it highly enriched and they have the missle capability to hit Europe. What now? What do you think Israel does?
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All you have are opinions and most of them are shitty. NK has been launching missiles and threatening nukes for decades and treats their citizens like dogs. Don't see how they are any different than Iran. Of course I'd prefer Iran doesn't get a nuke, but I'm not willing to spend trillions of dollars and lose thousands of lives to do it.

This has been explained to you before, but the agreement was about nukes. If Trump really wanted to stop their missile program, then negotiate that. What you don't do is tear up a nuclear agreement that is working in order to get something else. All he did was take us backwards. I also think it's unrealistic to think we can rule Iran by proxy through agreements, they are a 90 million person sovereign nation. If you want them to give up something, you have to give them something, and expecting them to just unilaterally disarm when they are surrounded by nations they perceive as enemies is naive as hell.

The agreement also didn't "give them the green light" to produce nuclear weapons in 2030. It just expired then. The way agreements typically work is you have a time period that they are enforceable and then if you want it to continue afterwards you negotiate the next period. And you keep avoiding the FACT that they were not enriching uranium while the agreement was in place. They only re-started the program after Trump tore it up. So why not let the agreement continue to work and start negotiating an extension? Because Trump is a fucking baby and had to dismantle anything Obama did. Answer this - If Iran is so depraved and untrustworthy and nowhere near the same universe as anyone else and certain to drop a nuke as soon as possible, then why were they abiding by the terms of no new enriched uranium until Trump violated the agreement?
 
Callatoroy said:
This board has no ability to think beyond this week. This is an America first issue. Allowing Israel to go to war with Iran unilaterally would be far more harmful to our economy for far longer than if we are controlling it. So far the economic impact has been minimal. So far we still have most of the ME on our side. So far the total loss of life has been limited. Unlike Iraq, Iran actually does have heu and icbms. Unlike Iraq Iran has stated their purpose in life is to kill Jews and they aren’t lying. It’s like a bunch of 9th graders who have no clue or understanding of how our national security would be affected or even what the issues affecting national security are. It isn’t limited to a military strike on US soil.
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America first? According to the Trump administration, Iran and its proxies have killed approximately 1,000 Americans since 1979 --

www.whitehouse.gov

The Iranian Regime’s Decades of Terrorism Against American Citizens

For nearly half a century, the Islamic Republic of Iran — the world’s leading state sponsor of terrorism — has killed and maimed American citizens and
www.whitehouse.gov www.whitehouse.gov

Almost all of those deaths were at the hands of terrorists associated with Iran or its proxies, not Iran itself.

Terrorists associated with Saudi Arabia killed almost 3,000 Americans in one day in 2001. Is it "America First" to bomb Saudi Arabia to oblivion?

We have so far killed about 3,500 Iranians in this war, many of them civilians. Does Iran therefore have the moral prerogative to bomb us to oblivion?

"I do believe that in order to be a successful negotiator that as a diplomat, you have to be able to put yourself into the other person's shoes. Unless you can understand what is motivating them, you are never going to be able to figure out how to solve a particular problem." I know they won't, but today's conservatives would do very well to listen to Madeleine Albright. She knew a thing or two about diplomacy.
 
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