GOP & Policies toward/treatment of Transgender Americans

[finesse]

Yes I'm quoting myself.....

I'll do add that it's more prominent because society is more accepting of trans people. So, in the past they may have only frequented bars where they knew it was "safe" or may have dressed in line with their biological sex when going to the gym, work, etc. I have absolutely seen more trans people in the last few years than I probably have in my entire life.

How do you know you have? How many is that, anyway? Where do you hang out and who are that you can recognize such a small fragment of the population so readily, especially when some have extremely sophisticated disguises?

 

[ZenMode]

"According to a 2021 YouGov survey, 43% of women believe transgender women should not be allowed to use women's changing rooms, and 42% believe they should not be allowed to use women's restrooms."

43% of women would be tens of millions. Seems to be slightly more than "a couple" I was told earlier.

 

[ZenMode]

How do you know you have? How many is that, anyway? Where do you hang out and who are that you can recognize such a small fragment of the population so readily, especially when some have extremely sophisticated disguises?

A) Many trans women aren't as inconspicuous as they believe.
B) Males who intent to medically transition are required, or were previously required, to live as a female for a year. I was friends with one of those males years ago.
C) A co-worker has transitioned over the last few years. A former coworker was reprimanded for calling her "buddy" on a Zoom meeting.

 

[ChileG]

In 1993, 50% of Americans did not believe openly gay people should be able to serve in the military.
In 2008 (a mere 15 years later) 75% supported openly gay people serving in the military.
I’d tell women worried about transgenders in their bathrooms what I said to military personnel in 1993 - you’ll get over it.

 

[finesse]

A) Many trans women aren't as inconspicuous as they believe.
B) Males who intent to medically transition are required, or were previously required, to live as a female for a year. I was friends with one of those males years ago.
C) A co-worker has transitioned over the last few years. A former coworker was reprimanded for calling her "buddy" on a Zoom meeting.

So you knew two and guessed at the rest. That's in how many years?

 

[wmheel1287]

I don't know why this conversion persists without the admission that the topic is not really transgender anything. The topic is that many people are uncomfortable KNOWING that someone is different. People who are uncomfortable just want "don't ask, don't tell" to rule the day. Thats because their fears are irrational about those different from them and always have been.

Remember when radio hosts "sounded" white later to be discovered as black by the listeners. Same thing. They were great until someone knew they were different... then the discomfort.

It's always been this way.

 

[superrific]

43% of women would be tens of millions. Seems to be slightly more than "a couple" I was told earlier.

This is where bad faith comes in. They aren't "uncomfortable." They just want to discriminate. Like Nancy Mace and Sarah McBride. You think that was about Nancy Mace's discomfort or about the cruelty, which is the point of Trumpism.

 

[superrific]

A) Many trans women aren't as inconspicuous as they believe.
B) Males who intent to medically transition are required, or were previously required, to live as a female for a year. I was friends with one of those males years ago.
C) A co-worker has transitioned over the last few years. A former coworker was reprimanded for calling her "buddy" on a Zoom meeting.

I'll take things that never happened for $100.

 

[superrific]

In 1993, 50% of Americans did not believe openly gay people should be able to serve in the military.
In 2008 (a mere 15 years later) 75% supported openly gay people serving in the military.
I’d tell women worried about transgenders in their bathrooms what I said to military personnel in 1993 - you’ll get over it.

This. You can do the same thing for women in the military, women in combat, desegregated platoons, etc. etc.

 

[ZenMode]

This is where bad faith comes in. They aren't "uncomfortable." They just want to discriminate. Like Nancy Mace and Sarah McBride. You think that was about Nancy Mace's discomfort or about the cruelty, which is the point of Trumpism.

Oh, so now you are speaking for 43% of women?

Wow...just wow. Talk about loading the dice. It's a good thing I'm the only one arguing in bad faith.

 

[ZenMode]

What is bad? In this thread, I've seen posters imply that women who don't want men in their restroom are prudes or are lying. I've seen posters expressing obvious contempt for females who don't want to compete against men in sports. I've seen the idea of using the restroom that aligns with your biological gender as obsessing over genitals or is the result of transphobia.

Maybe I missed it, not only here but in the liberal media in general, but I see virtually no concern for the side of biological females.

Yes, I'm replying to myself again....

In addition to the bolded section above, I've now been told that women aren't actually uncomfortable, they're just being brainwashed by the political right AND I was just told by @superrific that not one of the 43% of polled women who want to keep trans women out of women...not ONE of them responded because they are uncomfortable...they all just want to discriminte.

 

[lawtig02]

Not sure what you mean, but I'm planning on this being my last post.

Just quoting this for posterity.

 

[ZenMode]

Just quoting this for posterity.

Yeah...I really thought I could get some kind of acknowledgement that there are two sides to a difficult situation.

Ultimately, it seems all I got was a hefty dose of misogyny....maybe cisogyny.

 

[farce©]

Yeah...I really thought I could get some kind of acknowledgement that there are two sides to a difficult situation.

Ultimately, it seems all I got was a hefty dose of misogyny....maybe cisogyny.

I thought you were bowing out of this conversation several pages ago? Just can’t get over your fascination with genitals of trans people, can you?

 

[superrific]

Oh, so now you are speaking for 43% of women?

Wow...just wow. Talk about loading the dice. It's a good thing I'm the only one arguing in bad faith.

I'm not speaking for anyone. It's just that aggregate numbers don't tell you everything. Here, let me explain: Suppose Annie is asked whether trans women should be allowed to use women's bathrooms and she responds in the negative. Here are two possible explanations for that answer:

1. They just don't like anything about trans people and want to restrict their rights and erase their presence.
2. They are terribly upset and insecure about the possibility that there is an XY individual in the bathroom when they are.

Now, both of those are complete explanations for that survey result. All you know is that 43% of women fall into one of these two categories. But of course, #2 is what you're purporting to talk about. You say we're just not respecting their opinions -- opinions that they rarely express anywhere outside of surveys and political stunts, because they rarely experience anything negative with respect to trans people at all. And we say that you are looking at a huge prevalence of category 1 and pretending as if it's category 2.

So now that we know how to distinguish them, we can ask: is group 1 or group 2 larger? My assertion is that category 1 is enormously much larger than category 2. For all the reasons we've already talked about. And if you'd like to give some reason to think otherwise, fine but I have a feeling you're going to have trouble passing the straight face test. And that's really what this whole conversation is about.

 

[finesse]

What the whole conversation should be about is that if we treat peeping toms and voyeurs as such according to existing laws, sexual harassment as such according to law and sexual assault as such, then everybody gets left alone, remedies are about what you did and not who you are so nobody has to care about someone else's sexual identity. If that's not enough privacy, don't go to public facilities.

 

[ZenMode]

I'm not speaking for anyone. It's just that aggregate numbers don't tell you everything. Here, let me explain: Suppose Annie is asked whether trans women should be allowed to use women's bathrooms and she responds in the negative. Here are two possible explanations for that answer:

1. They just don't like anything about trans people and want to restrict their rights and erase their presence.
2. They are terribly upset and insecure about the possibility that there is an XY individual in the bathroom when they are.

Now, both of those are complete explanations for that survey result. All you know is that 43% of women fall into one of these two categories. But of course, #2 is what you're purporting to talk about. You say we're just not respecting their opinions -- opinions that they rarely express anywhere outside of surveys and political stunts, because they rarely experience anything negative with respect to trans people at all. And we say that you are looking at a huge prevalence of category 1 and pretending as if it's category 2.

So now that we know how to distinguish them, we can ask: is group 1 or group 2 larger? My assertion is that category 1 is enormously much larger than category 2. For all the reasons we've already talked about. And if you'd like to give some reason to think otherwise, fine but I have a feeling you're going to have trouble passing the straight face test. And that's really what this whole conversation is about.

You SAY you aren't speaking for anyone and then go on to a) mock those who don't want a strange male in their locker room/shower by referring to their genetic make-up (xy chromosomes), as though THAT is the part of the equation that is concerning and b) double down on the misogyny by again baselessly accusing the 43% as motivated by a desire to discriminate for no real reason - "My assertion is that category 1 is enormously much larger than category."

In other words, all you've really done is restate your previously stated position with a lot more words and a patronizing tone toward me.

Nice work. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[finesse]

Have you considered that the fact that it might just be a minor factor in their discomfort? Just stumbled on this today so it's fresher information than yours.

• People feel anxious when they have to use a public restroom: 44 percent feel anxious when having to use the restroom outside of their home.
• When people are unable to wash their hands, they don’t feel safe: 73 percent of respondents feel unsafe if they can't wash their hands.
• Poor restrooms are a reason people quit their jobs: One in 6 respondents (17%) said they left a job because of a poor restroom.
• People avoid eating or drinking to limit their use of public restrooms (38% of all respondents) and those with children or walking aids are more likely to do so: Nearly 50% of parents who need to bring a baby carrier or child in arms to use the public restroom have avoided eating or drinking to avoid visiting public restroom.
• Respondents consider access to public restrooms when planning social events or travel: 26% of respondents avoided a social event because of concerns about access to public restrooms; that number rises to 39%4 for those who report a phobia or fear of viruses or bacteria. 44% of all respondents plan their travel routes to ensure they have access to restrooms.

https://bsmmag.com/Articles/2024/Daily-Articles/07/Many-Public-Restroom-Users-Express-Anxiety.html

 

[ZenMode]

What the whole conversation should be about is that if we treat peeping toms and voyeurs as such according to existing laws, sexual harassment as such according to law and sexual assault as such, then everybody gets left alone, remedies are about what you did and not who you are so nobody has to care about someone else's sexual identity. If that's not enough privacy, don't go to public facilities.

Right, the conversation you want to have assumes that biological males have an inherent right to play women's sports, use women's restrooms, locker rooms and showers because your only concern is for the feelings and comfort of one side of the equation. That has been my point since page 15. I'm not claiming to have an answer, but the side you disagree with is treated much differently. They're liars, transphobes, obsess over genitals, brainwashed, just want to discriminte etc.

 

[ChileG]

Right, the conversation you want to have assumes that biological males have an inherent right to play women's sports, use women's restrooms, locker rooms and showers because your only concern is for the feelings and comfort of one side of the equation.

Have you said what policy you prefer when it comes to transgendered people?