GOP & Policies toward/treatment of Transgender & other LGBTQ Americans

[finesse]

My point is unchanged even if the example was bad.

There's no concern for the psychology of the actual females.

On your side. Own it.

 

[ZenMode]

On your side. Own it.

Nope. Your side. Even Democrats disagree with allowing males to compete in female sports. Life isn't always fair, but intentionally creating more unfairness isn't the solution.

 

[wmheel1287]

My point is unchanged even if the example was bad.

There's no concern for the psychology of the actual females.

How do you square your concern for the psychology of this group with your apathy about the psychology of other groups? What makes this injustice so much more important to you? It is clearly more important to you and those you politically align yourself with than other wrongs in our society. Why is that?

By the way, I don't disagree that I have problems with those born as male participating at high levels in women's athletics, but I also don't pretend to know everything and I certainly don't flaunt "science" as the basis for my opinion in that regard.

 

[ZenMode]

How do you square your concern for the psychology of this group with your apathy about the psychology of other groups? What makes this injustice so much more important to you? It is clearly more important to you and those you politically align yourself with than other wrongs in our society. Why is that?

By the way, I don't disagree that I have problems with those born as male participating at high levels in women's athletics, but I also don't pretend to know everything and I certainly don't flaunt "science" as the basis for my opinion in that regard.

Like I mentioned above, life isn't always fair, but compounding the issue by adding more unfairness isn't the solution.

The science I'm referring to isn't complex. It's the basic biological differences between males and females as it relates to, among other things, upper and lower body muscles mass, where males, without stepping foot in the gym, have a clear advantage.

 

[ChileG]

Each governing body should set their own rules, and politicians are making this an issue as a distraction.
And of course the democrats trip all over themselves addressing the matter.
This is a complex matter, but the democrats messaging should be simple (imo).

 

[UNCMSinLS]

Fifth.

In the NCAA’s.

Not the Olympic Trials or the Olympics.

Don’t get me wrong…..anyone who makes the Finals at the NCAA’s is an outstanding swimmer…..outstanding, but maybe not world class.

The MAGA credo: Never let facts get in the way of a good story.

 

[finesse]

How do you square your concern for the psychology of this group with your apathy about the psychology of other groups? What makes this injustice so much more important to you? It is clearly more important to you and those you politically align yourself with than other wrongs in our society. Why is that?

By the way, I don't disagree that I have problems with those born as male participating at high levels in women's athletics, but I also don't pretend to know everything and I certainly don't flaunt "science" as the basis for my opinion in that regard.

I have problems as well. My anticipation is that, in the long run , either there won't be a lot of satisfaction to winning if it's clear that there is a big advantage or that contests will become men, women and open categories with winning the open events holding the real prestige. It's a mental game, so not exactly the same although the attitudes were similar about who could do what, but that's what happened in bridge 20 or 30 years ago.

 

[wmheel1287]

Like I mentioned above, life isn't always fair, but compounding the issue by adding more unfairness isn't the solution.

The science I'm referring to isn't complex. It's the basic biological differences between males and females as it relates to, among other things, upper and lower body muscles mass, where males, without stepping foot in the gym, have a clear advantage.

So I suppose then that you support the elimination of Title IX altogether? It is very demonstrable that Title IX has eliminated exponentially more collegiate opportunities for young men than the transgender issue will over the next 100 years or so.

For the record, I do NOT support the removal of Title IX because I think the issue is complex and I think the creation of those opportunities for females was and is overall worth the tradeoff of that elimination for some males.

 

[ZenMode]

So I suppose then that you support the elimination of Title IX altogether? It is very demonstrable that Title IX has eliminated exponentially more collegiate opportunities for young men than the transgender issue will over the next 100 years or so.

For the record, I do NOT support the removal of Title IX because I think the issue is complex and I think the creation of those opportunities for females was and is overall worth the tradeoff of that elimination for some males.

Without getting into details and derailing the thread, I'm not a huge fan of Title IX, but I get, to a point, why it's good that it exists.

 

[ChileG]

The MAGA credo: Never let facts get in the way of a good story.

I’ll say it again…Riley Gaines owes everything to tying for fifth in that race. Where would she be without it?

 

[wmheel1287]

I’ll say it again…Riley Gaines owes everything to tying for fifth in that race. Where would she be without it?

Amen to that. The instant lottery in today's society is to be aggrieved in the eyes of the MAGA crowd. Trump continues to demonstrate it daily.

 

[wmheel1287]

Without getting into details and derailing the thread, I'm not a huge fan of Title IX, but I get, to a point, why it's good that it exists.

We wouldn't be having the discussion about taking opportunities from women AT ALL if Title IX didn't exist. Those opportunities would have never come into existence. Young girls grow up playing sports now because of Title IX.

 

[4thgenheel]

Because they don't understand the love component, they become fixated on the sexual aspect.

Just look at the arguments they make about how the body "isn't designed" for certain kinds of intimacy.

Yet, I doubt they object when their own partner is open to exploring those same experiences.

If they could simply accept that love transcends the arbitrary limits they impose, they might become more open-minded and compassionate.

i genuinely feel sorry for people like this. sex is about so much more than penetration.

 

[ZenMode]

We wouldn't be having the discussion about taking opportunities from women AT ALL if Title IX didn't exist. Those opportunities would have never come into existence. Young girls grow up playing sports now because of Title IX.

My wife and I involved our kids in youth sports knowing there was a 90+% chance they wouldn't ever play beyond high school but, again, I understand, especially in public universities, that there should be a requirement to offer girls sports. I don't think there should be a 1:1 requirement, but anything less would likely be viewed as discriminatory, so it is what it is.

 

[BlooVooDoo]

The argument from Democrats is often "Well, it's only a very small number of athletes." This is true, but it doesn't make the situation any less unfair for the female athletes. Every biological male that makes a starting lineup is pushing a female to the bench. Every male that finishes first, second, third, etc is keeping a female from finishing in one of those spots. Every male that goes to the state finals or a postseason tournament is taking the spot of what should have been a female in that position.

Even in low numbers, it is simply not fair. People recognize that and push back against it, rightfully so.

There's a reason that males and females are separated into different sports after a certain age.

Follow the science, right?

Should we regularly test for steroid use among all athletes? I mean, if your’re concerned about a perceived unfair advantage that boys have over girls because of size and strength, shouldn’t you be concerned that some people within a sex are cheating? Maybe we should have tiers of sports based on physical size the same way we do for HS based on enrollment.

Hurray! Our team made the class A, average height, bantamweight football playoffs!

 

[UNCatTech]

Should we regularly test for steroid use among all athletes? I mean, if your’re concerned about a perceived unfair advantage that boys have over girls because of size and strength, shouldn’t you be concerned that some people within a sex are cheating? Maybe we should have tiers of sports based on physical size the same way we do for HS based on enrollment.

Hurray! Our team made the class A, average height, bantamweight football playoffs!

So true, I mean look at Brittney Griner, her height was a clear advantage, who should that small group of tall girls have an advantage in sports that favor tall people?

If we're going to police every possible advantage, no matter how minute, then sports themselves are done.

These people need to realize how much more to sports there is besides winning.

 

[ZenMode]

Should we regularly test for steroid use among all athletes? I mean, if your’re concerned about a perceived unfair advantage that boys have over girls because of size and strength, shouldn’t you be concerned that some people within a sex are cheating? Maybe we should have tiers of sports based on physical size the same way we do for HS based on enrollment.

Hurray! Our team made the class A, average height, bantamweight football playoffs!

I think we should take reasonable steps to keep males out of female sports because males have an unfair physical advantage.

 

[BlooVooDoo]

So true, I mean look at Brittney Griner, her height was a clear advantage, who should that small group of tall girls have an advantage in sports that favor tall people?

If we're going to police every possible advantage, no matter how minute, then sports themselves are done.

These people need to realize how much more to sports there is besides winning.

I remember a few ZZL threads about holding boys back in Kindergarten so they would be a year older than most of the kids in their class and the primary rationale was about having an advantage in sports a decade later.
New rule: if you’re held back a grade for any reason, you’re banned from school sports.

 

[UNCatTech]

I remember a few ZZL threads about holding boys back in Kindergarten so they would be a year older than most of the kids in their class and the primary rationale was about having an advantage in sports a decade later.
New rule: if you’re held back a grade for any reason, you’re banned from school sports.

Yes, that was popular in Texas from what I've read.

 

[wmheel1287]

My wife and I involved our kids in youth sports knowing there was a 90+% chance they wouldn't ever play beyond high school but, again, I understand, especially in public universities, that there should be a requirement to offer girls sports. I don't think there should be a 1:1 requirement, but anything less would likely be viewed as discriminatory, so it is what it is.

Those youth sports opportunities only existed for boys 50 years ago. The fact that you have youth sports opportunities for girls now is directly attributable to the opportunities existing at the next level leading to growth in interest at the lower levels.