GOP slouches into the Crazy -IMMIGRATION Edition | Trump Won’t Condemn Bomb Threats in Springfield OH

[SnoopRob]

Charleroi, there's a name I haven't heard in a hot minute. I grew up about 10 miles away in California PA.

EDIT: For anyone wondering, it's pronounced "shall-AH-roy", at least by the locals.

Wait, there's a California in Pennsylvania? That's awesome.

And thanks for the pronunciation lesson. I like feeling like I know things like that.

 

[Paine]

I think you're correct that a community centered around hope and inclusion is far better for society than one centered around fear and exclusion. The former would encourage those in that community to be kind and gracious to those outside the community and the latter would encourage those in the community to be distrustful and mean.

But I don't think that explains the rise of MAGA. And it wouldn't explain how churches based on fear and exclusion leading to MAGA are simultaneously a result of greater social isolation. I'd say that the issues with churches based in fear and exclusion is that they exhibit the same general narcissism as MAGA because they elevate the in-group at the expense of the out-group to the same alarming degree.

You’re not going to find one factor that led to the rise of MAGA, but I don’t think we get to where we are today without the social isolation we experience as a country that was only exacerbated by Covid.

 

[finesse]

Democracy is in trouble then. Streaming movies ,multiple home entertainment opportunities, loud sports events and concerts which offers shared experiences but not a lot of interaction and what interaction there is is largely social media pretty much rules out most large scale activities of a more personally interactive nature. I don't much see that changing.

 

[HeelingAg]

Wait, there's a California in Pennsylvania? That's awesome.

And thanks for the pronunciation lesson. I like feeling like I know things like that.

Even more confusing - there's a California University of Pennsylvania.

 

[SnoopRob]

Even more confusing - there's a California University of Pennsylvania.

This thread is just full of useless knowledge. I love it.

 

[finesse]

2000 years of tradition is difficult to overcome.

 

[SnoopRob]

You’re not going to find one factor that led to the rise of MAGA, but I don’t think we get to where we are today without the social isolation we experience as a country that was only exacerbated by Covid.

I think that a sorting of the country by geography, specialized interests, and media consumption has certainly been a key to the rise of MAGA as it has increasingly placed people in echo chambers where they largely only hear from those who are like them.

But I don't think that's the same as social isolation. It seems to me that it's not isolation that's the issue but that many folks no longer interact with a broad cross-section of people and instead only interact with people who are largely like themselves.

That's not to say that we don't have an issue with social isolation for a significant group of Americans. We likely do, but I don't see how it's a driver of MAGA beliefs.

 

[TarSpiel]

I think this issue of social isolation is due to the loss of free, public spaces where people in the community actually go and hang out. In a lot of rural communities, this was the church. It created social bonds and cohesiveness within a community.

The church filled the need of this space then. It doesn’t have to do the same now, but I think it’s clear the loss of these third places have been catastrophic. New spaces need to be developed to promote these same types of bonds, though with a greater focus inclusion than churches may have had. Democracy requires these types of institutions.

There has been one epochal, paradigm-shifting event in our times, and that was the development of the internet.

I think everything else, from the decline of lemonade stands to the commodification of county-fairs, takes a very significant back seat to how the internet has reshaped pretty much everything, including very basic aspects of communal activity and social and economic organization.

 

[Paine]

I think that a sorting of the country by geography, specialized interests, and media consumption has certainly been a key to the rise of MAGA as it has increasingly placed people in echo chambers where they largely only hear from those who are like them.

But I don't think that's the same as social isolation. It seems to me that it's not isolation that's the issue but that many folks no longer interact with a broad cross-section of people and instead only interact with people who are largely like themselves.

That's not to say that we don't have an issue with social isolation for a significant group of Americans. We likely do, but I don't see how it's a driver of MAGA beliefs.

I think that is social isolation. As TarSpiel said above, the internet changed everything. People can exist within an entirely curated information bubble. If they’re not interacting with people in real life in a meaningful way, then they are socially isolated. I think the social isolation and the ideological sorting you describe go hand in hand.

Like I said, there is no one factor that led to MAGA. Other than capitalism maybe.

 

[SnoopRob]

There has been one epochal, paradigm-shifting event in our times, and that was the development of the internet.

I think everything else, from the decline of lemonade stands to the commodification of county-fairs, takes a very significant back seat to how the internet has reshaped pretty much everything, including very basic aspects of communal activity and social and economic organization.

This I very much agree with.

It is a "revolution" just as much as the Agricultural Revolution or the Industrial Revolution.

 

[finesse]

There has been one epochal, paradigm-shifting event in our times, and that was the development of the internet.

I think everything else, from the decline of lemonade stands to the commodification of county-fairs, takes a very significant back seat to how the internet has reshaped pretty much everything, including very basic aspects of communal activity and social and economic organization.

I'd argue that automation and computerization did a huge amount to create the social and economic unrest that the internet feeds on. You can see a lot of parallels with the social disruptions of the Industrial Revolution and its impact on everything from sewing to sailing. This one is probably larger and more wide ranging, locally, nationally and worldwide.

 

[Zoo_View]

Even more confusing - there's a California University of Pennsylvania.

There’s also an Indiana University of Pennsylvania, located in Indiana, PA.

California University of Pennsylvania is now Pennsylvania Western University.

 

[nycfan]

Charleroi, there's a name I haven't heard in a hot minute. I grew up about 10 miles away in California PA.

EDIT: For anyone wondering, it's pronounced "shall-AH-roy", at least by the locals.

Thanks! I WAS wondering that. I wonder if the Haitian immigrants use a French pronunciation…

 

[TarSpiel]

There's a Nazareth, PA, too.

What the hell is PA doing with all their place names?

 

[SnoopRob]

I think that is social isolation. As TarSpiel said above, the internet changed everything. People can exist within an entirely curated information bubble. If they’re not interacting with people in real life in a meaningful way, then they are socially isolated. I think the social isolation and the ideological sorting you describe go hand in hand.

Like I said, there is no one factor that led to MAGA. Other than capitalism maybe.

I disagree that sorting is the same as isolation. Meeting multiple times per week with a variety of folks isn't isolation, but it's an ideological echo chamber if roughly everyone you meet with is largely like you in demographics, economic status, and belief system.

While there is no one factor that led to MAGA, there are certainly main drivers. I am struggling to see how social isolation led to MAGA (and that lack of social isolation is what led other folks to reject MAGA).

Instead, I would say that a sense of collective narcissism by those who were in traditional American society the "haves" (white, male, heterosexual, cisgender, Christian, etc) has been a main driver of MAGA as those folks, faced with an increasingly multicultural society, have undertaken increasingly extreme actions to avoid relinquishing their prioritized place in American society. To me, it is one of the best answers I've found to the question of, "Why can't MAGA simply live their lives and allow others to live theirs?" Or, more specifically to this thread, why should folks in NC, Arizona, or Wisconsin be so overwhelmingly concerned with the impacts of immigration on a small city in Ohio?

 

[heelinhell]

You’re not going to find one factor that led to the rise of MAGA, but I don’t think we get to where we are today without the social isolation we experience as a country that was only exacerbated by Covid.

I think we can learn a lot about the phoenix- like rise of MAGA if we examine its roots in the late 60s when the country was in turmoil caused by the civil rights victories, the women's movement, and the Viet Nam War.

George Wallace led the reactionaries, that are today's MAGAs, and carried 5 states and garnered 14% of the vote in 1968. He was a 3rd party candidate. He had no backing of a major political party or a propaganda right wing media machine promoting his candidacy.

Imagine Trump today running as a 3rd party candidate without support from a right wing media propaganda machine. Would he do any better than Wallace did in 1968 ?

MAGA has always been with us

Everything old is new again...but on steroids

 

[Paine]

I think we can learn a lot about the phoenix- like rise of MAGA if we examine its roots in the late 60s when the country was in turmoil caused by the civil rights victories, the women's movement, and the Viet Nam War.

George Wallace led the reactionaries, that are today's MAGAs, and carried 5 states and garnered 14% of the vote in 1968. He was a 3rd party candidate. He had no backing of a major political party or a propaganda right wing media machine promoting his candidacy.

Imagine Trump today running as a 3rd party candidate without support from a right wing media propaganda machine. Would he do any better than Wallace did in 1968 ?

MAGA has always been with us

Everything old is new again...but on steroids

Just got done reading Rick Perlstein’s book on Barry Goldwater a few months back. 100% these ideas have always been with us. The job of conservatives is to repackage arguments that they’ve been using since the French Revolution. Their job is to make economic privilege popular in an ostensibly democratic system.

 

[ZenMode]

Cringe worthy

Trump-endorsed candidate points to groin and says 'women need to get this under control'

Mark Robinson is being slammed for a newly unearthed video of himself.
A 2022 video has resurfaced showing North Carolina Lt. Gov. Mark Robinson (R) deriding the notion of providing birth control to young women, gesturing towards his groin area and stating they need to "get this under control."

In a speech at Hilltop Baptist Church in Thomasville, North Carolina, in January 2022, Robinson, who is now running for governor as the GOP candidate, also targeted programs that offer sexual education and contraception to young women.

Robinson, a North Carolina Republican known for his controversial sexist, homophobic comments, and conspiracy theories, has fashioned his political persona after Donald Trump, who backed his campaign in March.

Trump-endorsed candidate points to groin and says women need to 'control' it

Mark Robinson is a North Carolina Republican known for his controversial sexist, homophobic comments, and conspiracy theories.

www.the-express.com

 

[SnoopRob]

There's a Nazareth, PA, too.

What the hell is PA doing with all their place names?

The use of European or biblical names for cities/towns in the eastern US doesn't really surprise me as folks tend to name things after places they already know.

But California, PA is a little surprising as it brings a west coast name back to the eastern US. Wikipedia provided this little bit of knowledge: "When founded in 1849, the town was named California, though Columbia and Sagamore were names that were also suggested for the new town. The town's founding coincided with the California Gold Rush and the town was named after the state to symbolize growth and prosperity."

 

[Paine]

I disagree that sorting is the same as isolation. Meeting multiple times per week with a variety of folks isn't isolation, but it's an ideological echo chamber if roughly everyone you meet with is largely like you in demographics, economic status, and belief system.

While there is no one factor that led to MAGA, there are certainly main drivers. I am struggling to see how social isolation led to MAGA (and that lack of social isolation is what led other folks to reject MAGA).

Instead, I would say that a sense of collective narcissism by those who were in traditional American society the "haves" (white, male, heterosexual, cisgender, Christian, etc) has been a main driver of MAGA as those folks, faced with an increasingly multicultural society, have undertaken increasingly extreme actions to avoid relinquishing their prioritized place in American society. To me, it is one of the best answers I've found to the question of, "Why can't MAGA simply live their lives and allow others to live theirs?" Or, more specifically to this thread, why should folks in NC, Arizona, or Wisconsin be so overwhelmingly concerned with the impacts of immigration on a small city in Ohio?

Okay, I see what you’re saying. I think it comes down to the fact that there are multiple drivers of this ideology because I agree with what you’re saying.