Heels vs Horned Frogs

[SnoopRob]

I was texting during the second half last night with a friend of mine who works in an athletics fundraising role at UNC, and he was telling me that a lot of the biggest football donors and supporters were already pretty turned off by how non-existent their access has been to the football program and to the coaches. If you know anything about UNC's football donors (the Big Hitters and the 22 Club), access to the program and to coaches are not something they are used to *not* having. Heck, it's a huge reason why Mack Brown 2.0 even lasted as long as it did, IMO (or, hell, why 2.0 even happened in the first place)- Mack had built genuinely close friendships with all of the influential boosters.

If Bill is going to insist on being his cantankerous, isolated, closed-off self, that's going to come with financial consequences for UNC, because those big money folks aren't going to tolerate being treated like that for long, and especially not if we are going to put forth such a humiliating product on the field. And if the big money stops flowing, then we aren't going to assemble very talented rosters in this new era of college football. And if we can't assemble talented rosters, we are going to see more of what happened last night for UNC moving forward.

This was all a huge gamble by the BOT and the University, and while the jury is still very much out on how it's going to work, the grim reality after last night is that the worst case scenario is now plausibly on the table- that this whole thing unravels before it really even gets going.

A couple of notes to this post...

1) My contributions to the Athletic Department are a hill of beans compared to the folks you're talking about.
2) I work in the non-profit sector and a part of my career is soliciting donations from folks with a lot more money than I have, albeit on a much smaller scale than UNC Athletics. I understand well how important folks feeling like they get a sufficient return on their donations are for future donations.

That said...

Last night was the first game for a new head coach, one game into the first season after Carolina Football has finally been given the resources to compete at a higher than mediocre level. If the big donors are going to let the results of one game or one season, or if they're going to let their level of access to the head coach, determine how much they are willing to donate in the future, then we might as well shut down this experiment right now and shoot for going to the SoCon once the ACC breaks apart. If they signed up for the Bill Belichick experience, then they should have the intestinal fortitude to see it through after one rough game. Everyone knew when we hired Belichick that he isn't a glad-hander and a backslapper, if that's what the major donors want from a football program, then they should have declined to put the money up to bring Belichick into the program. And if they're willing to pull money over that lack of glad-handing/backslapping, then we should recognize now that Belichick isn't going to work and figure out how we move forward after this season to something different.

I know that Mack was popular with the major donors because he treated them like they were all his best friends. And we also see where Mack 2.0 got us in terms of on-the-field success. If the major donors are ok with Mack 2.0 success because they get Mack 2.0 access, then we might as well turn KFC into an adult theme park and we can simply host fun parties with a celebrity HC there to keep the donors happy. It won't matter what the field or seats look like, because they won't be important to the goals of the program.

At some point, if we're ever to have success as a program, the major donors have to get on board and let something be built that's bigger than any one person or group of people. If our major donors can't or won't do that, then as Carolina Athletics we must recognize that our donors aren't sincere about wanting to have success and realign the future aims of the entire AD toward something more achievable...like maybe winning a SoCon conference title.

 

[SnoopRob]

To be fair, UNC had the #9 ranked portal class, so it’s not like we’re talking about minced meat here.

That ranking was based largely on quantity, not high-end quality.

We had to replace a lot of folks out on that field between graduation, leaving for the NFL, entering the transfer portal, and the rise in scholarships. We took a lot of flyers on players because we had room to do so and not necessarily because they were guaranteed P5 level talent.

 

[EyeballKid]

In game 1? How can it be a lack of discipline when literally there is no basis for assessment.

The basis for assessment is

That ranking was based largely on quantity, not high-end quality.

We had to replace a lot of folks out on that field between graduation, leaving for the NFL, entering the transfer portal, and the rise in scholarships. We took a lot of flyers on players because we had room to do so and not necessarily because they were guaranteed P5 level talent.

Disagree.

According to 24/7, we had 7 4-star and 30 3-star transfers.

That’s certainly a lot of quantity, but it’s also pretty decent quality. We’re not talking about a bunch of kids who never played a down or who didn’t have other offers.

 

[SnoopRob]

The basis for assessment is

Disagree.

According to 24/7, we had 7 4-star and 30 3-star transfers.

That’s certainly a lot of quantity, but it’s also pretty decent quality. We’re not talking about a bunch of kids who never played a down or who didn’t have other offers.

Pretty much all transfers are minimum 3-stars, that pretty much only means they've been reviewed and a ranking assigned.

And 4-star transfers are nice, but you have to recognize there are few program changers available in the portal and the few who enter get snapped up quickly. We didn't get any of those. The 4-stars we got are likely starters or high-end depth, but they were never going to be real game changers and the program needed both starters/high-quality depth AND game changers.

I actually wonder how much of the problem last night was Gio Lopez. I don't mean to put all of the blame on him, but once it became obvious that we were going to struggle to pass the ball, things got really rough really quickly as TCU loaded up the box and dared us to run and we couldn't pass well enough to make them pay (plus the playcalling was atrocious). We also looked a good bit better once Max Johnson came into the game (although maybe against subs rather than starters?), so I'm wondering if a QB change might help us a bit in the short run.

 

[NYCBlueBlood]

The basis for assessment is

Disagree.

According to 24/7, we had 7 4-star and 30 3-star transfers.

That’s certainly a lot of quantity, but it’s also pretty decent quality. We’re not talking about a bunch of kids who never played a down or who didn’t have other offers.

That's a lot of pretty decent quality players who have never played a down of football together until yesterday. This is not basketball where you only have to go 7 or 8 deep... and even brand new basketball teams take a fair number of games to gel. This was to be expected.

 

[wmheel1287]

We ended up forcing him out, hiring Roy Williams, and winning three national championships over the next 14 seasons!

Yeah, and show me the Roy Williams on the horizon for football. Also, show me where Carolina Football has the draw and brand power to recover from what Carolina Basketball does. The very fact that the wrong coach alienating people could damned near kill Carolina Baskeball should show how much damage it could do to Carolina Football.

 

[Peppers49]

I’ve had a healthy amount of skepticism about Belichick from the jump and while last night obviously didn’t make me feel better about the whole thing, I still think some of you need to take a step back about the historical significance of this game. If this thing does end up going sideways the last night was just a symptom; probably not the root cause in itself.

If you need some solace, go look at Kenny Dillingham’s (who made the CFP last year) 2023 season at ASU when he was starting out a similar rebuild. They got smashed into a pulp even worse than we did last night multiple times that year and managed to rebound.

And yes I understand that we don’t have the luxury of waiting on a lengthy rebuild because of Belichick’s age (which is why the hire never quite made since to me in the first place), but at this point a multi-year process is exactly what we’re looking at anyway.

 

[DiehardHeelFan]

Heels on their first drive of the game.


TCU on the Heels’ first drive of the game.

 

[gregh1]

thats bs people wouldve gotten behind thinking outside of the box. that product last night was pure horse shit. from coaching all the way to our slow players who had very little athleticism at all. they are not getting more athletic jfyi

We couldn't even get the financial commitment under Mack. If we can't get it from him, we definitely aren't getting it from a Fedora-level hire or lower.

 

[gregh1]

I am interested in seeing how Belichick responds to last night's game. He could certainly throw in the towel and begin to give up or he could certainly double down and work harder. Based on what is known of him with Patriots, my expectation (and certainly my hope) is that he doubles down and works harder.

Are we sure BB has an extra gear to shift into? If if he can work harder, there is only so much you can do with so-so players when half the so-so players weren't even here in spring. You can't legally get more practice time for players. He can work 24/7 but that isn't going to make Lindberg a better center or make Kelly/Blaske heal. It isn't going to change the fact that Xavier Lewis, a true frosh walk-on took 18 snaps on the interior DL. It isn't going to change the fact that we started a true frosh mid-3* at LT. And it isn't going to magically make the OL guys gel.

 

[Ramrouser]

I've been traveling today and I've purposely avoided anything pertaining to UNC football. I agree with almost everything said on this thread (positive and negative):

1. We blew a tremendous (once in a lifetime) opportunity to show the world we're a football school. This was going to be our shot-out-of-a-cannon shortcut to achieving an invitation of club membership in the big boys club. Didn't happen to say the least.
2. Now, we're going to have to grind it out and earn the respect of the football nation by steady improvement over the season (and the next); improve recruiting; and improve game day coaching.
3. I do think we'll get better as the season progresses (unlike Mack's teams).
4. Truthfully, I saw no real upgrades in coaching of performances in last night's game. Nothing.
5. Why did we spend money on Lopez? Criswell could have done a better job last evening. TCU was able to put 11 men on the line since they knew Lopez couldn't beat them.
6. I kept waiting for in game adjustments. That could have been Mack on the sidelines.
7. Most uninspiring/vanilla play calling I've seen after the first drive.
8. Next two games are needed as "get right" games.
9. I'm not ready to throw in the towel for the BB experiment but good things need to start happening FAST.

 

[gregh1]

I was texting during the second half last night with a friend of mine who works in an athletics fundraising role at UNC, and he was telling me that a lot of the biggest football donors and supporters were already pretty turned off by how non-existent their access has been to the football program and to the coaches. If you know anything about UNC's football donors (the Big Hitters and the 22 Club), access to the program and to coaches are not something they are used to *not* having. Heck, it's a huge reason why Mack Brown 2.0 even lasted as long as it did, IMO (or, hell, why 2.0 even happened in the first place)- Mack had built genuinely close friendships with all of the influential boosters.

If Bill is going to insist on being his cantankerous, isolated, closed-off self, that's going to come with financial consequences for UNC, because those big money folks aren't going to tolerate being treated like that for long, and especially not if we are going to put forth such a humiliating product on the field. And if the big money stops flowing, then we aren't going to assemble very talented rosters in this new era of college football. And if we can't assemble talented rosters, we are going to see more of what happened last night for UNC moving forward.

This was all a huge gamble by the BOT and the University, and while the jury is still very much out on how it's going to work, the grim reality after last night is that the worst case scenario is now plausibly on the table- that this whole thing unravels before it really even gets going.

Thank god for rev share.... tar heel athletics has no chance of success of we're relying on the wine & cheese crowd.

 

[Carolina Fever]

A couple of notes to this post...

1) My contributions to the Athletic Department are a hill of beans compared to the folks you're talking about.
2) I work in the non-profit sector and a part of my career is soliciting donations from folks with a lot more money than I have, albeit on a much smaller scale than UNC Athletics. I understand well how important folks feeling like they get a sufficient return on their donations are for future donations.

That said...

Last night was the first game for a new head coach, one game into the first season after Carolina Football has finally been given the resources to compete at a higher than mediocre level. If the big donors are going to let the results of one game or one season, or if they're going to let their level of access to the head coach, determine how much they are willing to donate in the future, then we might as well shut down this experiment right now and shoot for going to the SoCon once the ACC breaks apart. If they signed up for the Bill Belichick experience, then they should have the intestinal fortitude to see it through after one rough game. Everyone knew when we hired Belichick that he isn't a glad-hander and a backslapper, if that's what the major donors want from a football program, then they should have declined to put the money up to bring Belichick into the program. And if they're willing to pull money over that lack of glad-handing/backslapping, then we should recognize now that Belichick isn't going to work and figure out how we move forward after this season to something different.

I know that Mack was popular with the major donors because he treated them like they were all his best friends. And we also see where Mack 2.0 got us in terms of on-the-field success. If the major donors are ok with Mack 2.0 success because they get Mack 2.0 access, then we might as well turn KFC into an adult theme park and we can simply host fun parties with a celebrity HC there to keep the donors happy. It won't matter what the field or seats look like, because they won't be important to the goals of the program.

At some point, if we're ever to have success as a program, the major donors have to get on board and let something be built that's bigger than any one person or group of people. If our major donors can't or won't do that, then as Carolina Athletics we must recognize that our donors aren't sincere about wanting to have success and realign the future aims of the entire AD toward something more achievable...like maybe winning a SoCon conference title.

How about a conference with UNC, NC State, ECU, App State, Western Carolina and UNC-Charlotte at least? And add Coastal Carolina, Marshall, James Madison, Old Dominion, Wake and Duke? Would be more fun than the current ACC and would actually be competitive, unlike now and going to the SEC. Only problem is WCU is still in the FCS. Maybe Virginia would want to join.

 

[wmheel1287]

Thank god for rev share.... tar heel athletics has no chance of success of we're relying on the wine & cheese crowd.

Serious question...how much are you donating. I find it interesting that the "wine and cheese" folks are usually the ones putting their wallets in play. Its unusual to find a rabid fan at Carolina who is writing annual 6 and 7 figure checks.

 

[CFordUNC]

Thank god for rev share.... tar heel athletics has no chance of success of we're relying on the wine & cheese crowd.

But that's the thing, though- revenue share is directly impacted by athletics donations. UNC isn't getting $20.5 million from just anywhere. It's coming from donors.

 

[Calheel]

I've been traveling today and I've purposely avoided anything pertaining to UNC football. I agree with almost everything said on this thread (positive and negative):

1. We blew a tremendous (once in a lifetime) opportunity to show the world we're a football school. This was going to be our shot-out-of-a-cannon shortcut to achieving an invitation of club membership in the big boys club. Didn't happen to say the least.
2. Now, we're going to have to grind it out and earn the respect of the football nation by steady improvement over the season (and the next); improve recruiting; and improve game day coaching.
3. I do think we'll get better as the season progresses (unlike Mack's teams).
4. Truthfully, I saw no real upgrades in coaching of performances in last night's game. Nothing.
5. Why did we spend money on Lopez? Criswell could have done a better job last evening. TCU was able to put 11 men on the line since they knew Lopez couldn't beat them.
6. I kept waiting for in game adjustments. That could have been Mack on the sidelines.
7. Most uninspiring/vanilla play calling I've seen after the first drive.
8. Next two games are needed as "get right" games.
9. I'm not ready to throw in the towel for the BB experiment but good things need to start happening FAST.

Not only was there no real upgrade, there was a downgrade.

That was a 2002/03 Bunting-esque performance.

 

[gregh1]

Serious question...how much are you donating. I find it interesting that the "wine and cheese" folks are usually the ones putting their wallets in play. Its unusual to find a rabid fan at Carolina who is writing annual 6 and 7 figure checks.

Zero. I donate to issues like food insecurity, not sports entertainment. But contrast the big donors at other schools with the fat cats at UNC who arrive late and leave early. We're spoiled by eons of dominance in hoops, our expectations are a bit awry.

 

[wmheel1287]

Zero. I donate to issues like food insecurity, not sports entertainment. But contrast the big donors at other schools with the fat cats at UNC who arrive late and leave early. We're spoiled by eons of dominance in hoops, our expectations are a bit awry.

So then why criticize the people who actually do the giving? If they want to sit on their ass and be whine and cheese, we should at least be thankful they ponied up the money.

And big donors at other schools are EXACTLY like those at UNC. What Carolina is missing is the buy in from casual fans. What other schools have that UNC doesnt have is an army of people who live and breathe UNC sports and spend money on tickets rather than paying their mortgage. Thats the fanaticism that everyone points to.

 

[gregh1]

So then why criticize the people who actually do the giving? If they want to sit on their ass and be whine and cheese, we should at least be thankful they ponied up the money.

And big donors at other schools are EXACTLY like those at UNC. What Carolina is missing is the buy in from casual fans. What other schools have that UNC doesnt have is an army of people who live and breathe UNC sports and spend money on tickets rather than paying their mortgage. Thats the fanaticism that everyone points to.

I assume they're paying for sports entertainment or LOVE for their university, hopefully the latter is the larger draw. And if they're halting their donations over nite their love isn't that strong and they clearly don't understand how to be a fan while being an underdog, so they might as well go be Ohio St fans.

 

[gregh1]

Just saw this one - statement of the obvious at this point. Apparently Saban said there were just two guys on our team with NFL scout eyeballs.