Hegseth ordered hundreds of generals to meet on short notice in Virginia

[UNCatTech]

I don't think you should be opining on standards. You've demonstrated repeatedly that you have none of any significance.

Yea, because a person who's job is to think, plan, and lead really needs to be able to do 10 pull ups. Just zen being his normal self and defending his orange turd.

 

[lawtig02]

What Hegseth apparently never learned in his previous life was that hectoring is not inspiration

Understandable, since this is precisely what counts as inspiration at Fox News.

 

[UNCatTech]

STEPHANOPOULOS: Trump said yesterday that he wants American cities to be used as 'training grounds' for the military. Is that the highest and best use of the military?

MIKE JOHNSON: I run the House. And what we need to be talking about today is real harm that the American people are going to feel because of what Schumer is doing.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Hold on a second. Answer the question. As Speaker, do you believe it's appropriate to use American cities as training grounds for the military, calling those people 'the enemy within'?

JOHNSON: I'm not comment on your characterization of what the president said.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Those are quotes. They are not characterizations.

JOHNSON: Well you can take his quotes out of context, which you often do, and I don't think that's fair to the president.

Mike must have just returned from his daily trump ass kissing session before this interview.

 

[dukeman92]

Mike must have just returned from his daily trump ass kissing session before this interview.

 

[ChileG]

Some years back a nobody NC state representative who never went to college put forth a bill that would require professors at research universities to teach a minimum of X course per semester.

That guys highest level of education was literally going to clown college.

For some reason that reminded me of Pete Hegseth telling the military brass how to run the military.

 

[ZenMode]

I don't think anybody disagrees with the armed forces having some sort of minimum physical standard for entry. But the reality is that the majority - probably vast majority - of positions within the umbrella of the service branches are not positions that, first and foremost, require immense physical prowess. Doctors/nurses, quartermasters/procurement/logistics, signals, cyber ops, community relations, JAG, IT, etc - these are all positions where things like dexterity, composure, organizational skills, mental acuity, and integrity are far more important than physical fitness. As many have noted, things like drones are becoming far more important on a modern battlefield, and I don't think anyone should give a crap how many pushups our drone operators and repair techs can do or how their facial hair is styled.

In this intense focus on physical fitness and appearance - and dismissiveness towards things like respect, dignity, and integrity - Hegseth and Trump are taking our military backward, not forward. There is not one iota of evidence that a lack of physical fitness or supposedly soft training standards or lack of grooming or discipline or whatever are eroding the effectiveness of our military. There is not any conflict Hegseth and Trump can point to where our military lost or was outclassed somehow because it wasn't tough or fierce or "lethal" enough. This is simply two TV personalities with little knowledge or care for what actually makes a modern military successful who want a military that looks good on the propaganda reels. You can hear echoes of all those dipshit commentators from the last few years posting those supposedly telling side-by-side photos of the Russian military (bunch of barrel chested white dudes flexing with their shirts off) versus the US military (some sort of photo of women and minorities supposedly looking out of shape and unable to fight). Ignoring that it has been demonstrated time and again that the modern US military can run circles around the Russian military, which has been absolutely embarrassed in Ukraine. Turns out having big muscles and zero brain cells is not particularly helpful when a teenager 100 miles away is using a drone to drop a grenade on your head.

Hegseth and Trump are just two overgrown children who embody the entire ethos of the Trump philosophy, which is to focus on looking good rather than being good. They are showman by nature, and they want a military that can put on a show. They walk around peacocking about the "War Department" while ignoring that their primary directive is to avoid having to go to war and that the vast majority of the people under their command spend the vast majority of their time doing things other than fighting wars. Instead of building a modern military based on respect, integrity, and cooperation - one appropriate for a highly developed nation that needs a military to protect and defend, not to conquer foreign territory - they want a military full of bodybuilding psychos who use racial slurs, chase tail, and spend their spare time kicking each other in the balls to build "toughness." It's an absolute joke, and if that philosophy prevails for too long, it will result in a much less effective military, IMO.

I agree that not all positions require the same physical standards and that is a reality that is sure to slap Trump and Hegseth in the face sooner rather than later. Yes, this is 'for show', much like the nonsense with Portland and the National Guard.

Regarding this:

"There is not one iota of evidence that a lack of physical fitness or supposedly soft training standards or lack of grooming or discipline or whatever are eroding the effectiveness of our military."

I don't think we know one way or the other. Since the military has migrated toward "wokeness", as the right calls it, we haven't had any real wars. Our last was Iraq? The problem is, if we find out that the softening of troops is happening, it's going to be too late. At the point we find out that females, who haven't met the physical standards, are significant issue on the battlefield, it's too late.

I want to keep the fighting areas of our military "manly". I want them to be young and fit and tough. There's no crying in baseball or on the battlefield.

 

[sringwal]

Since the military has migrated toward "wokeness", as the right calls it, we haven't had any real wars.

 

[thebruinbleedstarheelblue]

I agree that not all positions require the same physical standards and that is a reality that is sure to slap Trump and Hegseth in the face sooner rather than later. Yes, this is 'for show', much like the nonsense with Portland and the National Guard.

Regarding this:

"There is not one iota of evidence that a lack of physical fitness or supposedly soft training standards or lack of grooming or discipline or whatever are eroding the effectiveness of our military."

I don't think we know one way or the other. Since the military has migrated toward "wokeness", as the right calls it, we haven't had any real wars. Our last was Iraq? The problem is, if we find out that the softening of troops is happening, it's going to be too late. At the point we find out that females, who haven't met the physical standards, are significant issue on the battlefield, it's too late.

I want to keep the fighting areas of our military "manly". I want them to be young and fit and tough. There's no crying in baseball or on the battlefield.

What about experience standards for leaders?

If those people are in shape and people at the top, like Hegseth, don't have anything close to the experience to lead them...what is the gain of spending however many millions it took to have these meetings?

not only are their roles that aren't impacted by the difference... I think a lot of people are in shape.

What about his preparation, strategy, confidentiality and understanding of what this powerful organization is? He sharing missions on a group text with people outside of the military... that leads a failure even if a drone operator can do 15% more push-ups.

THIS IS DUMB

 

[rodoheel]

I agree that not all positions require the same physical standards and that is a reality that is sure to slap Trump and Hegseth in the face sooner rather than later. Yes, this is 'for show', much like the nonsense with Portland and the National Guard.

Regarding this:

"There is not one iota of evidence that a lack of physical fitness or supposedly soft training standards or lack of grooming or discipline or whatever are eroding the effectiveness of our military."

I don't think we know one way or the other. Since the military has migrated toward "wokeness", as the right calls it, we haven't had any real wars. Our last was Iraq? The problem is, if we find out that the softening of troops is happening, it's going to be too late. At the point we find out that females, who haven't met the physical standards, are significant issue on the battlefield, it's too late.

I want to keep the fighting areas of our military "manly". I want them to be young and fit and tough. There's no crying in baseball or on the battlefield.

I mean - I think if Trump and Hegseth are going to assert that the fighting potential of our military has been lessened or weakened they have the burden of proof on that assertion. We may not have been in any "wars" in a while but American troops in various service branches have been engaged in combat operations relatively constantly for the last couple decades - most recently of course when we bombed Iran. I don't recall Trump or Hegseth saying that the operation went poorly because, like, there was a woman involved or something.

As for "females on the battlefield" being a supposed issue - are there actually a lot of females in, like, front-line infantry units? If so then they probably have been in service in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. I don't think there has been some mass increase in putting females in infantry units or the special forces or something. And again, I have no problem with those types of units having physical standards that members have to meet. But having some sort of wide-ranging physical standards like trump and Hegseth are referencing that apply to all units - I'm not sure that makes sense.

This is just absolutely a made up problem, man. The fact that you are willing to accept at face value Trump and Hegseth claiming that wokeness has weakened our military despite absolutely zero evidence of it is sad. Theoretical musings are not the same as evidence.

BTW - a number of women are actively serving in Ukraine's armed forces in their fight against Russia. Including in front-line units. Do you have reason to believe that this is negatively impacting the Ukrainian military?

 

[gtyellowjacket]

Here is some info on females in front line military spots:

"As of July 2019 [women were allowed starting 2015 so 4 years], 46 women had graduated from Infantry Basic Officer Leader Course, 72 women from the Armor Basic Officer Leader Course, and 270 enlisted women from Infantry and Armor One Station Unit Training. As of October 2019, in the regular Army, 1,055 women had accessed into combat specialties while 653 women had completed training and were serving in combat roles. The attrition rate for women during their initial training in these previously closed schools ranges from 11 to 72 percent (infantry 49 percent, field artillery 11 percent, and armor 72 percent), while attrition rates for their male counterpart range from 0.46 to 18 percent (infantry 18 percent, field artillery 0.46 percent, and armor 17 percent). While the Army is succeeding at assessing women into the pipelines, completion rates for initial training remain troubling. All active-duty brigade combat teams for infantry, armor, and field artillery fields include female soldiers."

Women in Combat: Five-Year Status Update

Developing strong, pragmatic and principled national security and defense policies.

www.cnas.org

In my mind, I think what we're doing today is probably the right approach. Let a few thousand women try, accept the high washout rate because a few hundred are going to make it and they deserve the shot. More importantly, women can serve extremely valuable roles in the military outside of those frontline infantry positions. I don't think we should take away an American citizens right to try to serve in those roles both because it's not fair to the citizen but also because it would impair our military readiness to automatically reject half the population based on how much they bench.

Of course if there were hundreds of thousands of women that were hoping to serve in a frontline infantry brigade and half of them were washing out, I think the waste would be too high but a few thousand... I think it's fine.

 

[superrific]

There's no crying in baseball or on the battlefield.

O my good lord, why are you thus alone?
For what offense have I this fortnight been
A banished woman from my Harry’s bed?
Tell me, sweet lord, what is ’t that takes from thee
Thy stomach, pleasure, and thy golden sleep?
Why dost thou bend thine eyes upon the earth
And start so often when thou sit’st alone?
Why hast thou lost the fresh blood in thy cheeks
And given my treasures and my rights of thee
To thick-eyed musing and curst melancholy?
In thy faint slumbers I by thee have watched,
And heard thee murmur tales of iron wars,
Speak terms of manage to thy bounding steed,
Cry “Courage! To the field!” And thou hast talked
Of sallies and retires, of trenches, tents,
Of palisadoes, frontiers, parapets,
Of basilisks, of cannon, culverin,
Of prisoners’ ransom, and of soldiers slain,
And all the currents of a heady fight.
Thy spirit within thee hath been so at war,
And thus hath so bestirred thee in thy sleep,
That beads of sweat have stood upon thy brow
Like bubbles in a late-disturbèd stream,
And in thy face strange motions have appeared,
Such as we see when men restrain their breath
On some great sudden hest. O, what portents are
these?
Some heavy business hath my lord in hand,
And I must know it, else he loves me not.

 

[Geisterfahrer]

The Washington battle in “Civil War” is pretty intense.

 

[rodoheel]

Here is some info on females in front line military spots:

"As of July 2019, 46 women had graduated from Infantry Basic Officer Leader Course, 72 women from the Armor Basic Officer Leader Course, and 270 enlisted women from Infantry and Armor One Station Unit Training. As of October 2019, in the regular Army, 1,055 women had accessed into combat specialties while 653 women had completed training and were serving in combat roles. The attrition rate for women during their initial training in these previously closed schools ranges from 11 to 72 percent (infantry 49 percent, field artillery 11 percent, and armor 72 percent), while attrition rates for their male counterpart range from 0.46 to 18 percent (infantry 18 percent, field artillery 0.46 percent, and armor 17 percent). While the Army is succeeding at assessing women into the pipelines, completion rates for initial training remain troubling. All active-duty brigade combat teams for infantry, armor, and field artillery fields include female soldiers."

Women in Combat: Five-Year Status Update

Developing strong, pragmatic and principled national security and defense policies.

www.cnas.org

In my mind, I think what we're doing today is probably the right approach. Let a few thousand women try, accept the high washout rate because a few hundred are going to make it and they deserve the shot. More importantly, women can serve extremely valuable roles in the military outside of those frontline infantry positions. I don't think we should take away an American citizens right to try to serve in those roles both because it's not fair to the citizen but also because it would impair our military readiness to automatically reject half the population based on how much they bench.

Of course if there were hundreds of thousands of women that we're hoping to serve in a frontline infantry brigade and half of them were washing out, I think the waste would be too high but a few thousand... I think it's fine.

Good data. In other words: the idea that masses of unqualified women are filling out the ranks of our front-line battlefield units and turning them into knitting parties instead of combat units is absurd. A whopping 653 women in army combat roles. Compared to thousands of women serving in front-line units for the smaller Ukrainian military. Why, it's a miracle the Ukrainian military can even fight a war with all the book clubs and crying and emotional outbursts that must be going on, right zen?

 

[ZenMode]

I mean - I think if Trump and Hegseth are going to assert that the fighting potential of our military has been lessened or weakened they have the burden of proof on that assertion. We may not have been in any "wars" in a while but American troops in various service branches have been engaged in combat operations relatively constantly for the last couple decades - most recently of course when we bombed Iran. I don't recall Trump or Hegseth saying that the operation went poorly because, like, there was a woman involved or something.

Like I said... at the point we find out the military has been weakened by all things under the "wokeness" umbrella, it's too late.

As for "females on the battlefield" being a supposed issue - are there actually a lot of females in, like, front-line infantry units? If so then they probably have been in service in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. I don't think there has been some mass increase in putting females in infantry units or the special forces or something. And again, I have no problem with those types of units having physical standards that members have to meet. But having some sort of wide-ranging physical standards like trump and Hegseth are referencing that apply to all units - I'm not sure that makes sense.

I don't see a reason to have any females in front-line infantry or boots on the ground type of battles any more than I see a reason to have female fireman, unless they are able to pass EXACTLY the same physical requirements, which is very, very unlikely.

This is just absolutely a made up problem, man.

Like I said, at the point we test the theory and find it out it IS a problem, it's too late.

The fact that you are willing to accept at face value Trump and Hegseth claiming that wokeness has weakened our military despite absolutely zero evidence of it is said. Theoretical musings are not the same as evidence.

My claims, like they are with trans women in sports, isn't based on Trump, Hegseth or a belief in wokeness. It's based on science.

BTW - a number of women are actively serving in Ukraine's armed forces in their fight against Russia. Including in front-line units. Do you have reason to believe that this is negatively impacting the Ukrainian military?

I have no idea, but I would be fine with taking out every female and replacing them with a male because males are better equipped for the situation.

 

[ZenMode]

O my good lord, why are you thus alone?
For what offense have I this fortnight been
A banished woman from my Harry’s bed?
Tell me, sweet lord, what is ’t that takes from thee
Thy stomach, pleasure, and thy golden sleep?
Why dost thou bend thine eyes upon the earth
And start so often when thou sit’st alone?
Why hast thou lost the fresh blood in thy cheeks
And given my treasures and my rights of thee
To thick-eyed musing and curst melancholy?
In thy faint slumbers I by thee have watched,
And heard thee murmur tales of iron wars,
Speak terms of manage to thy bounding steed,
Cry “Courage! To the field!” And thou hast talked
Of sallies and retires, of trenches, tents,
Of palisadoes, frontiers, parapets,
Of basilisks, of cannon, culverin,
Of prisoners’ ransom, and of soldiers slain,
And all the currents of a heady fight.
Thy spirit within thee hath been so at war,
And thus hath so bestirred thee in thy sleep,
That beads of sweat have stood upon thy brow
Like bubbles in a late-disturbèd stream,
And in thy face strange motions have appeared,
Such as we see when men restrain their breath
On some great sudden hest. O, what portents are
these?
Some heavy business hath my lord in hand,
And I must know it, else he loves me not.

 

[rodoheel]

I have no idea

This could have been your entire post.

 

[ZenMode]

What about experience standards for leaders?

If those people are in shape and people at the top, like Hegseth, don't have anything close to the experience to lead them...what is the gain of spending however many millions it took to have these meetings?

not only are their roles that aren't impacted by the difference... I think a lot of people are in shape.

What about his preparation, strategy, confidentiality and understanding of what this powerful organization is? He sharing missions on a group text with people outside of the military... that leads a failure even if a drone operator can do 15% more push-ups.

THIS IS DUMB

What about the second shooter on the grassy knoll?

 

[rodoheel]

Also glad to know that zen thinks every one of the approximately 90,000 current female firefighters in the US is unqualified:

About Us — Women in Fire

www.womeninfire.org

I think you should go explain to them, zen, that in your vast firefighting experience they are unqualified and need to resign.

 

[ZenMode]

This could have been your entire post.

And it could have been yours since we don't know the impact of having less physically capable troops. I'd prefer not to find out the hard way. You apparently want to risk it.

 

[05C40]

Like I said... at the point we find out the military has been weakened by all things under the "wokeness" umbrella, it's too late.


I don't see a reason to have any females in front-line infantry or boots on the ground type of battles any more than I see a reason to have female fireman, unless they are able to pass EXACTLY the same physical requirements, which is very, very unlikely.

Like I said, at the point we test the theory and find it out it IS a problem, it's too late.


My claims, like they are with trans women in sports, isn't based on Trump, Hegseth or a belief in wokeness. It's based on science.


I have no idea, but I would be fine with taking out every female and replacing them with a male because males are better equipped for the situation.

Just curious, which branch of the military did you serve in and what was your MOS?